Loving God?

[Beat]

Why?

I know the Christian faith says that we should not only accept Jesus/god as a savior but that we should love him. Why do humans feel compelled to worship and show admiration towards god? The same god that's ready to share heaven with us is the same one that will damn you in a heart beat? Doesn't the "game" of faith seem a bit much for us humans, as feeble as we are? I call it a game, in that we must process within our heads whether we can come to have a faith in god, then, depending on our decision to accept or deny, that dictates the eternal resting place of our souls. Does it not seem like a game of chess or something where we're merely dispensable pawns? Why would an all loving god wish for my brain to be plagued with this shit that I don't feel I have the ability and mental capacity to sort out?

[Kiddo]

I think the Christian god is a passive-aggressive bastard. Sorry if that offends anyone but that is just the way I feel. One moment he is flooding the world, bringing plagues to Egypt, turning cities into salt, and telling people to go kill infidels and homosexuals. The next he is walking around in sandles, sporting a hippie hairstyle and preaching forgiveness and love for all. Someone get God some damn Lithium! The dude is like, manic-depressive or borderline personality or something.

[Mempy]

Originally Posted by Kiddo

One moment he is flooding the world, bringing plagues to Egypt, turning cities into salt, and telling people to go kill infidels and homosexuals. The next he is walking around in sandles, sporting a hippie hairstyle and preaching forgiveness and love for all. Someone get God some damn Lithium! The dude is like, manic-depressive or borderline personality or something.

Lol.

I just made a journal post about whether or not God is unconditionally loving, actually.

I'll quote something:

"That's one reason why I really don't believe in an all-powerful, truly loving God. The way I see it, there is no such thing. He can be one or the other, but not both, given that we're all here on this imperfect earth, sharing in imperfect experiences."

Also, George Carlin speaks on the inconsistency. Haha.

"But I gotta tell ya, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize something is fucked up, something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the icecapades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kinda shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude."

[SolitaryWalker]

Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn

Why?

I know the Christian faith says that we should not only accept Jesus/god as a savior but that we should love him. Why do humans feel compelled to worship and show admiration towards god? The same god that's ready to share heaven with us is the same one that will damn you in a heart beat? Doesn't the "game" of faith seem a bit much for us humans, as feeble as we are? I call it a game, in that we must process within our heads whether we can come to have a faith in god, then, depending on our decision to accept or deny, that dictates the eternal resting place of our souls. Does it not seem like a game of chess or something where we're merely dispensable pawns? Why would an all loving god wish for my brain to be plagued with this shit that I don't feel I have the ability and mental capacity to sort out?

I understand that the Christian dogma commands us to love God irrespectively of how we truly feel about his character. But what does this tell us about the authors of the book of dogma and their disciples?

What reason have we got to accept it as immortal and immutable truth?

[sassafrassquatch]

"You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen. We don't need Him. Fuck damnation, man, fuck redemption! If we are God's unwanted children, so be it!"

[Jennifer]

The conversation is a little hard to engage because the term "God" is being tossed around with a somewhat vague definition.

Can we equate Jesus totally with God in form and function? If God exists, does he match the definition of the modern conservative Christian or does he look different? Which definitions of God are more rejectable than others, if a distinction can be made?

I am pretty sure, logically, that God is not omnipotent (or close to it) AND a bastard... because if he was, our lives would be much more painful than they are currently at times. There would be no limit to the cruelties every human being would suffer, and there would be no moments of hope or beauty.

I think Christianity has already provided basic answers to the objections raised here. Basically, God wanted it to be good, but people screwed it up; and if God did not give people the opportunity to screw it up, then no one would exist as a "self" with volition. That's the standard position you'd hear, in a nutshell. So perhaps that is what would have to be confronted/addressed in a conversation such as this one for the exploration to deepen.

I am not as turned off by the potential for a loving, powerful God... since I see pain and conflict as essential to the maturation process. If people have choices, people can make screwy choices. And if people can make screwy choices, then character is developed by how people react to screwy choices. As far as natural disasters and "evil in nature," again, I do not see that as implausible... it's all a system seeking to balance itself or maintain balance, and so if it's actually constantly changing / in flux, with every species competing for resources and trying to thrive, and if every species has different needs that way, then sometimes "bad" things will happen to some organisms.

I am not even sure how to articulate my disillusionment with the whole salvation/damnation thing in an active sense. It doesn't even make sense to me. One of the most prominent metaphors for God in Jesus' words is as parent [most thoroughly depicted in the story of the Prodigal Son], and that parent's behavior has little to do with the idea of a God who seeks to actively damn, punish people for rebellion, holds them to such a stringent standard. In that story, God is apt to let people choose their own lives, miss them if they leave because the relationship has been sundered, and is overjoyed when they come back to restore the relationship, even if other human beings grouse and complain about it. The concepts about the sacrifice and scapegoat and things make sense until you try to examine them on a very granular scale, and then they just sort of fall apart (sort of like when you're dreaming, everything makes sense, and after you wake up the logic seems bizarre and unexplainable).

Originally Posted by BlueWing

I understand that the Christian dogma commands us to love God irrespectively of how we truly feel about his character. But what does this tell us about the authors of the book of dogma and their disciples?

The "in" thing nowadays is actually to let yourself rant at God when you're pissed, especially if you have doubts about his character, because he should be big enough to handle it. (This is a welcome change from mid-20th-century western Christianity.)

Still, the assumption is that God is still everything the old faith said, he can just 'deal' with our disillusionment.

What reason have we got to accept it as immortal and immutable truth?

You don't. It amounts to a choice, since it can't be proven to anyone.

[Beat]

Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch

Was that quote from Fight Club? I recognize the picture but not the quote.

[sassafrassquatch]

Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn

Was that quote from Fight Club? I recognize the picture but not the quote.

Yup.

[sassafrassquatch]

Another thing.

I think we need to dispense with this silly spiritual language. If any god type thing were to exist it would just be an omnipotent alien being like Q from star trek.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn

Why?

I know the Christian faith says that we should not only accept Jesus/god as a savior but that we should love him. Why do humans feel compelled to worship and show admiration towards god? The same god that's ready to share heaven with us is the same one that will damn you in a heart beat? Doesn't the "game" of faith seem a bit much for us humans, as feeble as we are? I call it a game, in that we must process within our heads whether we can come to have a faith in god, then, depending on our decision to accept or deny, that dictates the eternal resting place of our souls. Does it not seem like a game of chess or something where we're merely dispensable pawns? Why would an all loving god wish for my brain to be plagued with this shit that I don't feel I have the ability and mental capacity to sort out?

Reciprocity.