For the Torah, Qur'an, and Bible tells me so

Kiddo · 12-24-2008, 03:33 PM

SolitaryWalker · 12-24-2008, 03:39 PM

Welcome back, most esteemed sir!

Extremely thought-provoking topic. Scintillating!

I have not looked at those videos yet, but there is no doubt in my mind that they shall cause an ethical paradigm shift!

Kiddo · 12-24-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker

Welcome back, most esteemed sir!

Extremely thought-provoking topic. Scintillating!

I have not looked at those videos yet, but there is no doubt in my mind that they shall cause an ethical paradigm shift!

Thank you.

I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

kendoiwan · 12-24-2008, 03:52 PM

The bible is a book written and edited by men with agendas... I care not what the bible tells me outside of just having the perspective...

JocktheMotie · 12-24-2008, 04:03 PM

I watched the intro and it seems like an awesome film. Definitely give it a watch. Today is a bit busy though... but I will post my thoughts.

SolitaryWalker · 12-24-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiddo

Thank you.

I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

Well, those remarks were sarcastic. I will watch those videos. From a personal perspective this is very interesting to me, as religion has a profound impact on the lives of many in the Western Culture. Yet, intellectually, this is not very interesting.

The definition of religion is a worldview that propounds a cosmological view( how the world works), ethical perspective (what we should do in our lives) and eschatological (matters of life after death), as well as regards at least the central maxims as incontrovertible. The last aspect (acceptances of propositions as incontrovertible) is what demarcates religion from philosophy.

On that note, blind obedience to authority is the most notable aspect of religiosity. The psychological and the sociological reasons why people accept religion are very simple. Namely, most people struggle to think for themselves and therefore do not understand how to live, or what kind of a worldview they should endorse. Such a lack of knowledge is uncomfortable to them.

They find religion to be compelling because it solves all of the problems above, it tells them exactly how to live and what to think of the world. Their religious teaching insists that all of the issued commands must be obeyed without question. Hence, because they think that the Bible exhorts them to condemn homosexuals, they do so accordingly.

The question to follow is, does the Bible or does it not explicitly condemn homosexuals? It likely does both. There were many authors many of which held beliefs that were incompatible with other authors of the Bible. Moreover, many of the authors of the Bible were not philosophers or learned men, hence they lacked the ability to think cleary and to express their thoughts clearly. Thus many of the statements they have with regard to homosexuality were in themselves incoherent and were expressed in an ambiguous way. On that note, it is not at all surprising that there is myriad of different kinds of religious zealots who purport that their actions are justified by the Bible. On that note, it is also not surprising that many adherents of the Bible assert that their actions are justified by the book of dogma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiddo

I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here,

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the topic is not intellectually challenging. It is merely about stupid people doing stupid things. Yet, I am glad that you posted it anyways. The topic has the potential to discuss ethical issues that are of deep concern to many of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiddo

I especially can't wait to hear your thoughts on the topic.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here, Poverty of Conventionalism

Whilst religion in itself is not intellectually stimulating, philosophy of religion may be. In this book, I was concerned chiefly with the endeavor of philosophy of religion. Philosophy of religion is intellectually interesting because it is concerned with doing exactly what religions have failed to. Establishing a coherent worldview (in relation to cosmology, ethics and eschatology). However the chief difference between a philosophical approach to this endeavor and a religious is that the former does not regard any proposition as incontrovertible, whilst the latter clearly does.

Jennifer · 12-24-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker

Well, those remarks were sarcastic.

Yeah, I laughed when they were taken seriously. Poor kiddo.

(I mean, there is no way you could be THAT jovial for REAL.

)

Quote:

I will watch those videos. From a personal perspective this is very interesting to me blah blah blah blah BLAH blah blah blah <five more pages of blah>

Why not watch the videos first, to ensure that the commentary fits what the OP hopes to discuss? (regardless of whether or not I happen to agree with your assessment of religious thought on the homosexuality topic... although actually which I do, quite a bit)

Never fear, there'll be other opportunities to tout and sell your book, rest assured, once real discussion commences.

Edahn · 12-24-2008, 04:26 PM

Really, SolitaryWalker? I think it's extremely thought-provoking.

Kiddo · 12-24-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker

Well, those remarks were sarcastic.

Ah, I figured we had long buried the hatchet.

Quote:

I will watch those videos. From a personal perspective this is very interesting to me, as religion has a profound impact on the lives of many in the Western Culture. Yet, intellectually, this is not very interesting.

Thank you.

Quote:

The definition of religion is a worldview that propounds a cosmological view( how the world works), ethical perspective (what we should do in our lives) and eschatological (matters of life after death), as well as regards at least the central maxims as incontrovertible. The last aspect (acceptances of propositions as incontrovertible) is what demarcates religion from philosophy.

On that note, blind obedience to authority is the most notable aspect of religiosity. The psychological and the sociological reasons why people accept religion are very simple. Namely, most people struggle to think for themselves and therefore do not understand how to live, or what kind of a worldview they should endorse. Such a lack of knowledge is uncomfortable to them.

They find religion to be compelling because it solves all of the problems above, it tells them exactly how to live and what to think of the world. Their religious teaching insists that all of the issued commands must be obeyed without question. Hence, because they think that the Bible exhorts them to condemn homosexuals, they do so accordingly.

The question to follow is, does the Bible or does it not explicitly condemn homosexuals? It likely does both. There were many authors many of which held beliefs that were incompatible with other authors of the Bible. Moreover, many of the authors of the Bible were not philosophers or learned men, hence they lacked the ability to think cleary and to express their thoughts clearly. Thus many of the statements they have with regard to homosexuality were in themselves incoherent and were expressed in an ambiguous way. On that note, it is not at all surprising that there is myriad of different kinds of religious zealots who purport that their actions are justified by the Bible. On that note, it is also not surprising that many adherents of the Bible assert that their actions are justified by the book of dogma.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here,

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the topic is not intellectually challenging. It is merely about stupid people doing stupid things. Yet, I am glad that you posted it anyways. The topic has the potential to discuss ethical issues that are of deep concern to many of us.

I have expressed more of my thoughts here, Poverty of Conventionalism

Whilst religion in itself is not intellectually stimulating, philosophy of religion may be. In this book, I was concerned chiefly with the endeavor of philosophy of religion. Philosophy of religion is intellectually interesting because it is concerned with doing exactly what religions have failed to. Establishing a coherent worldview (in relation to cosmology, ethics and eschatology). However the chief difference between a philosophical approach to this endeavor and a religious is that the former does not regard any proposition as incontrovertible, whilst the latter clearly does.

Interesting insight as always.

I will also try to post more intellectually stimulating topics in the future.

Kiddo · 12-24-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Yeah, I laughed when they were taken seriously. Poor kiddo.

I really did.

Quote:

Why not watch the videos first, to ensure that the commentary fits what the OP hopes to discuss? (regardless of whether or not I happen to agree with your assessment of religious thought on the homosexuality topic... although actually which I do, quite a bit)

I agree. I think it would be best if people try to hold off on commenting until they do see the video.

And it doesn't have to be watched all at once folks.

12-24-2008, 03:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
SolitaryWalker Iconoclast Join Date: Apr 2007 Type: INTP Posts: 2,526	Welcome back, most esteemed sir! Extremely thought-provoking topic. Scintillating! I have not looked at those videos yet, but there is no doubt in my mind that they shall cause an ethical paradigm shift! __________________ 'And the great deadly serpent Superstition, bred of fear and ignorance, keeps watch on the treasure of knowledge. Only he who has slain the serpent and knows not fear can bestride Odin's horse and ride through the wall of fire; only he who wields Odin's sword can draw near to that sleeping might and beauty, and sunder the stifling links of mail, and show the divine face to men.' 'To be a philosopher,you must first be a Spinozist; if you have not Spinozism, you have no philosophy at all' Hegel

12-24-2008, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
JocktheMotie Fade Join Date: Nov 2008 Type: INTP Location: Neither here nor there. Posts: 2,457	I watched the intro and it seems like an awesome film. Definitely give it a watch. Today is a bit busy though... but I will post my thoughts. __________________ "If one studies too zealously, one easily loses his pants." -[AE] "My passionate sense of social justice and social responsibility has always contrasted oddly with my pronounced lack of need for direct contact with other human beings and human communities." - [AE] "Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy. " - [AE]

12-24-2008, 04:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
Edahn Splashy Join Date: May 2007 Type: XNTP Location: Southern California Posts: 5,424	Really, SolitaryWalker? I think it's extremely thought-provoking. __________________ My other signature is something witty.

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12-24-2008, 03:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
kendoiwan I am Sofa King!!! Join Date: Dec 2008 Type: IsTP Posts: 981	The bible is a book written and edited by men with agendas... I care not what the bible tells me outside of just having the perspective...