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  1. #31
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think if you're going to pick on me, you'd better do it another time.
    I am sorry you feel I am picking on you. Next time I will try to enhance your self esteem.

  2. #32
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    To be clear, I would say there are only three civilizations in the world today - the Chinese civilization - the Indian civilization - and the Western civilization.
    In general that is true.

    But I think that there are four of them.

    You forgot Islam.

  3. #33
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Maybe it was deliberate, antisocial.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #34
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Being christian is (viewed as) almost as bad as being illiterate, the world sees it as it's call to educate such individuals. I mean, since there is proof that the creation is a load of horse-shit, it shouldn't be so hard to accept that the bible is pure fiction mixed with wonder stories about an actual man who lived about two thousand years ago.
    Sorry, just felt I had to give a reason to why it is less and less acceptable to be christian nowadays.
    I don't have anybody on my ignore list. Don't be the first.
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  5. #35
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Maybe it was deliberate, antisocial.
    Probably it was. (I read his post)

    It is just that I want to see his opinion.

  6. #36
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Probably it was. (I read his post)

    It is just that I want to see his opinion.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #37
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    I feel uncomfortable praying.
    I don't like lying to myself.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #38
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I feel uncomfortable praying.
    I don't like lying to myself.
    I started to wonder why I am a member of your fan club, now I know

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #39
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    In general that is true.

    But I think that there are four of them.

    You forgot Islam.
    Of course Islam is commonly referred to as a civilization. But I don't include it as a civilization because it lacks breadth.

    For instance, Spain translates more books into Spanish in one year, than Islamic countries have translated into Arabic in the last five hundred years.

    Islamic culture did have a brief flowering near the beginning but over the last one thousand years, Islam has contributed not one significant idea to human culture.

    So I think it is special pleading to call Islam a civilization. Rather I see Islam as an aggressive political religion whose holy book teaches Jihad and martyrdom.

    So I don't think there is a clash of civilizations - rather there is a clash of civilization and barbarity.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    Yeah, I also feel embarrassed when I see people praying in public...

    If they look weak or undereducated I'll pretend not to notice. A bit like ignoring it when someone's farting in the elevator in order to spare them further humiliation.
    But if they are in a position of authority, I will debate them as I will any other accountable person promoting unethical ideologies.

    Before you ask what the unethical part is, a perfect illustration runs through this thread: confronted with explicitly religious motivated crimes, some believers still choose to blame the mysterious immorality of single persons in order to protect the powerful moralist doctrine itself from criticism.

    But thing is, every set of ideas is invented, carried and promoted by persons. And just as persons can't be reduced to an idea, ideas cannot be reduced to persons. Using people as default scapegoats to divert criticism of a corrupt doctrine simply will not do. People cannot be used as a lazy free-pass, pretending that bad ideas have nothing to do with the actions of their followers. Ideas do influence collective perceptions and actions. Human intelligence will be wise to make them the object of critique.

    The ethical standpoint being of course that it's people who should be protected (religious people included), not their ideas. Ideas must be challenged and scrutinized, never made sacred.

    Oh, and defending religion by accusing secular humanism and critical reasoning for bigotry seems... cynical. Could be funny I guess, if superstitious belief weren't still wrecking havock around the world.
    But, hell, we can take it. (Laurie Anderson: ...and if we can't, we can fake it... )

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