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Thread: Fowl of Fame?

  1. #11
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Are chickens even bright enough to realize that it was a road and not just more ground to walk on?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #12
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    I'm not certain that's really a prevalent issue -- does the chicken's assessment of the terra change that it's trying to get where it's going?
    we fukin won boys

  3. #13
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    well... why bring the road into the question if it doesn't matter? why not ask "why did the chicken walk 5 yards to the left?" if the road and the chickens awareness of its existance doesn't matter?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #14
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    well... why bring the road into the question if it doesn't matter? why not ask "why did the chicken walk 5 yards to the left?" if the road and the chickens awareness of its existance doesn't matter?
    Well, why did you pick left and 5 yards in that case? It's not relevant to the main point.

    But why do we assume that the chicken is trying to get where it's going? Sure it's going somewhere, but maybe it isn't trying. For all I know, some stonger power is compelling the chicken's body to walk across the road, without the chicken consciously trying to go anywhere.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #15
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, why did you pick left and 5 yards in that case?
    why not? it's as relevant as crossing the road if the chicken is unaware!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #16
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    why not? it's as relevant as crossing the road if the chicken is unaware!
    That's actually my point. Neither are relevent, but you'll find it harder to give the example without using some kind of tangible reference that involves details that are not pertinent to the main point. It's also just less aesthetically pleasing when you do that, so most people ignore it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #17
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    well... why bring the road into the question if it doesn't matter? why not ask "why did the chicken walk 5 yards to the left?" if the road and the chickens awareness of its existance doesn't matter?
    It's relevant only in proof that things will go where they're trying to go even at the risk of life and limb (assuming the street is frequently used) but... it's not really relevant.
    Just a landmark.
    The Poriferan is correct. It's just pleasing.

    The Poriferan has not yet seen the raw implications.
    Higher force? So what?
    Ultimately it has to be the chicken's decision to comply with the force, conscious or not.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #18
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    So, if we assume that the chicken is just as dumb as they frequently appear to be, it's blithe disregard and unawareness to danger will lead it into potentially dangerous places in search of what it needs to live, or to avoid real or perceived dangers.....


    kinna like why they have those damned Slow Children at Play signs
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #19
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    The Poriferan has not yet seen the raw implications.
    Higher force? So what?
    Ultimately it has to be the chicken's decision to comply with the force, conscious or not.

    Does it? What if I a tornado picked the chicken up? The chicken can't resist the tornado, so where it is taken has nothing to do with where the chicken is trying to get to, even if the chicken does not comply with the tornado (the tornado does not need the chicken's compliance ). So, the chicken is going somewhere that it is not trying to go.

    Also, I think consciousness does matter, becuase the nature of the word "try" is one that has intent. I suppose you could refer to sub-conscious intent, but in the case of the tornado, the chicken could definitely be going somewhere that no level of the chicken's conscience intends to go. It is going without intent, and lack of intent means it's not trying.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #20
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    The chicken is complying with the tornado. It complies by having mass.
    It doesn't have to be a deliberate for it to be a decision.
    That is to say, if we allow sentience or consciousness to accompany a system or any component of a system, we can't necessarily be convinced either will make deliberation.


    Since the system is up against the whim of its constituents, and those things are most likely incapable of cognition, the closest thing to a decision they can make is choosing to follow the rules of physics. If in the course of this, those individuals decide to stop cooperating, the system fails. The systematic entity wasn't really an entity to begin with. It just looked like it. Oops.

    Like I said, metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy
    That is to say, if we allow sentience or consciousness to accompany a system or any component of a system, we can't necessarily be convinced either will make deliberation.
    Maybe it's not the same type of consciousness you and I are familiar with.
    (preemptive response to your next point)
    we fukin won boys

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