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  1. #21
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's inexplicable.
    Two points. One, love is largely inexplicable. Therein lies the joy and danger. We do not proceed into a state of love logically. Two, the concept of the Nazi as the archetype of diabolical evil is largely a modern construct. During and before the war, being a Nazi was synonymous with being a German patriot or German nationalist. I am certain most Germans did not regard themselves as evil. If the Axis had won the war, our view would likely be different and we'd probably be discussing the racist apartheid pogroms against African-Americans from the point of view of German sanctimony. I'm no apologist for the Nazis and their ilk, but it is important to keep in mind the modern taint projected into history.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #22
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    Partially inexplicable, at least. It can be biologically understood, save for perhaps the causes.

    Regarding Nazi Germany...Being the optimist I am, I think if they'd held Europe, their racist views wouldn't have lasted and it would be a different society today. Look at the history of the USA.

  3. #23
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    The Dream of Reason, Anthony Gottlieb is an excellent introductory text.

  4. #24
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Partially inexplicable, at least. It can be biologically understood, save for perhaps the causes.
    The ladies love when you describe your feelings for them in purely biological terms! When we are in love, we may think we can explain it, but I don't think we feel like that when it's happening. At least I don't. I feel utterly powerless and clueless. Confused, excited, amazed, and frightened all at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Regarding Nazi Germany...Being the optimist I am, I think if they'd held Europe, their racist views wouldn't have lasted and it would be a different society today. Look at the history of the USA.
    If they had held Europe we would have never found out about the concentration camps or they would have been explained away with a convenient fiction elaborately and carefully constructed. The victors create history.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #25
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Favourite philosopher: Schopenhauer
    Because I know we'd be best friends if we were contemporaries (even though he was a raging misogynistic egomaniac)

  6. #26
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I'm thinking the racism would have been eliminated in Europe as soon as the people it was directed to were eliminated!

    I don't see that the US still isn't racist. It's just gone more underground. And, therefor, probably more dangerous.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Those are not works of philosophy, they are works of philosophical literature.
    This part I agree with BW to an extent. Dostoevsky is not a formal thinker, but that doesn't mean he's irrelevant to those interested in philosophy.

    Probably a good study into that issue is James P. Scanlan's Dostoevsky the Thinker.

    The rest about philosophy revolving around logic is incorrect. Plenty of irrational elements within philosophy.

    The definition of philosophy is an attempt to build a comprehensive view of the world based on logically valid arguments that are founded on premises that could be established based on observations that could be derived from our experiences. (Not faith).
    That's empiricism, not philosophy per se.

    Im not getting into the racism discussion; however as far what Europe would be like if the Nazis won, the recently released Hitler's Empire: How the Nazis Ruled Europe by Mark Mazower should be of interest. As the product description itself explains:
    Throughout this book are fascinating, chilling glimpses of the world that might have been. Russians, Poles, and other ethnic groups would have been slaughtered or enslaved. Germans would have been settled upon now empty lands as far east as the Black Seathe new Greater Germany. Europes treasuries would have been sacked, its great cities impoverished and recast as dormitories for forced laborers when they were not deliberately demolished. As dire as all this sounds, it was merely the planned extension of what actually happened in Europe under Nazi rule as recounted in this authoritative, absorbing book.

  8. #28
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This part I agree with BW to an extent. Dostoevsky is not a formal thinker, but that doesn't mean he's irrelevant to those interested in philosophy.

    Probably a good study into that issue is James P. Scanlan's Dostoevsky the Thinker.

    The rest about philosophy revolving around logic is incorrect. Plenty of irrational elements within philosophy.



    That's empiricism, not philosophy per se.

    Im not getting into the racism discussion; however as far what Europe would be like if the Nazis won, the recently released Hitler's Empire: How the Nazis Ruled Europe by Mark Mazower should be of interest. As the product description itself explains:

    There are varying degrees of empiricism. Empiricism by definition is reliance on observation of the external world as means to the end of understanding it.

    Radical empiricism insists on very careful observations, even going so far as prohibiting all thinking that may distract us from our observations of the physical world. This stultifies our reasoning faculties and is for this reason counter-productive.

    However, some measurement of empiricism is necessary in order to have a reasonable worldview, as not paying close attention to the concrete world inevitably leads to divorce from reality.

    When I use the term experience, such experience could be of the inner world as well. For example with regard to memory, or process of reasoning, and so on, this paves the way for philosophy of mind. The radical empiricist however will argue that those things could have been distorted by our imagination and therefore we only count our experience with the concrete, physical world as legitimate.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    The victors create history.
    How true.

  10. #30
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    How true.
    That was bait and you took it.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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