Has anyone read How To Win Friends and Influence People-what are your thoughts?

[Jae Rae]

@Mom
right, but you've reinvented yourself to make yourself more socially acceptable. If other people weren't so sensitive, you wouldn't have to. You'd still be your true self.

Has no one ever hurt you with his opinion of you when he/she was being true to himself? Did you resent it? Did you feel angry? Or were you philosophical - that's just his opinion? Perhaps you felt enlightened or grateful?

There are two issues here - if someone asks for your opinion you might feel freer to give it; even if it's unfavorable that might be justified. But there are a lot of folks out there giving their opinions when they weren't even asked, just because they're being themselves.

So you don't have to compliment someone's haircut if you don't like it, but neither do you have to lay your negative opinion of it on someone either.

 

[kuranes]

fair enough, but cooperation doesnt necessarily require them to like you, just respect you.

anyways, even if they dont, there is always plenty of alternatives to asking nicely

If you, as a "Carnegie-ite", handle it right, hopefully you won't have to choose which of these two qualities that you want them to associate with you. In fact, they may even feel that they respect you more than they like you. Oftentimes "validating"* someone's opinions, without even having ever specifically and verbally supported their POV, still leaves them the impression that you agree with those principles, and ( unless something comes along in the interim to cause you to behave differently ) therefore they may feel that they "respect" you even more than they "like" you. If need be, "liking" often trumps "respecting" though, unless there is a rather obvious disadvantage to the likee's plan or "suggestion", which is a different matter, but can sometimes, even then, still be overcome..... if desired.

* validation = letting them know you have "heard them out" and understand their POV, without agreeing or disagreeing. Like they teach in classes on how to argue constructively, you can re-state your opponent's "case" to see if you are on the same page. In many cases of validation you are not seen as an "opponent" because there was no need to get into that right then and there. If there ever comes a time when there is a need ( if you haven't changed your own mind about it by then ) then you can say something at that time, making your position clearer.

Do I always do this ? No, because I'm not really a Carnegie-ite. But I can see it is very effective, and i've lost many times by digging in my heels and not doing things this way. In some cases the Carnegie-ite is so focused on being positive, and genuinely liking all parties concerned, that they don't even see it as manipulation or deception. On a further note, sometimes the differences between the parties concerned were nothing more than petty politics anyway, and people like this can sometimes smooth their ruffled feathers without anybody losing face, with it at worst coming down to some sparing application of euphemism or equivocations on minor points.

 

[swordpath]

^ For beat

How to Win Friends and Influence People: Dale Carnegie - Download Misc.

Well aren't you just awesome. Thank you.

 

[LucrativeSid]

"Become genuinely interested in people."

Don't look at it as being fake and forcing yourself to develop a genuine interest in people. Think of it as removing all the negative, fake, and irrational beliefs that you already have within you that prevent you from genuinely being interested in them in the first place.

If you meet a fellow and don't even give him the time of day, how is that any more "real" than actually taking a moment and seeing if there's something you actually like about him? You can often find whatever you look for in a person. If you don't want to connect with people like that, that's great. You probably won't need to because you won't likely choose a career in which these skills are needed. If you do, though, this book can be helpful.

 

[INTJMom]

"Become genuinely interested in people."

Don't look at it as being fake and forcing yourself to develop a genuine interest in people. Think of it as removing all the negative, fake, and irrational beliefs that you already have within you that prevent you from genuinely being interested in them in the first place.

If you meet a fellow and don't even give him the time of day, how is that any more "real" than actually taking a moment and seeing if there's something you actually like about him? You can often find whatever you look for in a person. If you don't want to connect with people like that, that's great. You probably won't need to because you won't likely choose a career in which these skills are needed. If you do, though, this book can be helpful.

Gotta love ENTPs.

 

[swordpath]

"Become genuinely interested in people."

Don't look at it as being fake and forcing yourself to develop a genuine interest in people. Think of it as removing all the negative, fake, and irrational beliefs that you already have within you that prevent you from genuinely being interested in them in the first place.

If you meet a fellow and don't even give him the time of day, how is that any more "real" than actually taking a moment and seeing if there's something you actually like about him? You can often find whatever you look for in a person. If you don't want to connect with people like that, that's great. You probably won't need to because you won't likely choose a career in which these skills are needed. If you do, though, this book can be helpful.

Well said.

 

[Mole]

I've always been a little different and not so good at making friends.

My parents loved me and recognised this so bought me Dale's book. And interestingly they bought me, "How to Make Friends and Influence People", when I was just a little boy.

But even at that early age I could see it was fake and alien.

And as I grew older I came to recognise the context in which it was written and for whom it was written.

It was written for American salesmen.

Americans love salesmen - their greatest tragedy is even called, "Death of a Salesman".

And we all know that in America when you can fake sincerity, you've got it made.

So my parents, with the best intentions in the world, tried to turn me into an American fake.

Fortunately my stomach revolted at this and I vomited up Dale Carnegie's, "How to Make Friends and Influence People".

 

[01011010]

It had valid techniques that would help in business/networking situations. I have no hesitation employing methods that are strategically to my advantage when necessary. Nonetheless, as far as that genre of information is concerned, I prefer Yes!: 50 Scientifically Proven Ways to be Persuasive by Noah J. Goldstein.

In friendships, I will only be my true, unfiltered self. Otherwise, there's no point.

 

[heart]

I read it and it filled me with both anxiety and dread. It just reminded me of everything nearly everyone around me as tried to push me into being.

I'd rather earn one or two really good friends than "win" a hundred psuedo-friends.

 

[Salomé]

Has no one ever hurt you with his opinion of you when he/she was being true to himself? Did you resent it? Did you feel angry? Or were you philosophical - that's just his opinion? Perhaps you felt enlightened or grateful?

So you don't have to compliment someone's haircut if you don't like it, but neither do you have to lay your negative opinion of it on someone either.

Haircuts? Who cares about haircuts? If someone asks and I hate it, I'll tell them. I won't be cruel, (well, not always) but I try to be honest. I think it's respectful. I don't want people to lie to me, so why should I lie to them? If I say something is great, when it isn't, it devalues those occasions when I really do think something is great. People know if they get a compliment from me, it means something.

The truth has never hurt me, it can sting for a bit, but it always makes me stronger. Lies/flattery are debasing, not upbuilding. I value people who know me well and tell me unpleasant things about myself, (not out of spite, but out of regard), people who reveal my blind spots - that's a useful service. I wish more people were so brave. I guess you have to be quite tough and sure of yourself to feel this way, and many people seem to be rather fragile.

I think this is a book primarily for extroverts. It is about breadth rather than depth in relationships.
The part about being "genuinely interested" in others: this is definitely easier for some types (e.g. ENFP/ENTP) than others. Their focus is naturally outward, they are naturally interested in other people/objects. It energizes them. I'm not like that. Most people bore my pants off. I'm sure it's mutual too. I'd like it if there were more people in the world that were genuinely interesting to me, or even tolerably so, but it is the way it is.

I don't think you can "win" true friends, you have to count yourself lucky when you stumble across them.

 

[INTJMom]

As Victor stated, the original audience for this book was the American salesman.
Unfortunately, the word "salesman" doesn't garner much respect anymore, but proper salesmanship is an art.
Discovering what the person wants, and then showing them how you can meet their need is what true selling is all about.
Unfortunately, everyone gets a bad name when a few just try to make you buy something you don't want or need because of their own selfish desire.

When I was learning how to sell, this book taught me the proper way to do it.
And, inadvertently, I learned how to generally be more likeable to others.

 

[Salomé]

^ I hate the idea of selling anything to anyone. I have a BIG problem with salespeople.

 

[Jae Rae]

As Victor stated, the original audience for this book was the American salesman.
Unfortunately, the word "salesman" doesn't garner much respect anymore, but proper salesmanship is an art.
Discovering what the person wants, and then showing them how you can meet their need is what true selling is all about.
Unfortunately, everyone gets a bad name when a few just try to make you buy something you don't want or need because of their own selfish desire.

When I was learning how to sell, this book taught me the proper way to do it.
And, inadvertently, I learned how to generally be more likeable to others.

Well-said.

 

[aguanile]

I don't care for salespeople either. If I am interested in something, I will find out about it, read about it, ask a friend about it. But don't push me.

 

[Jae Rae]

Haircuts? Who cares about haircuts? If someone asks and I hate it, I'll tell them. I won't be cruel, (well, not always) but I try to be honest. I think it's respectful. I don't want people to lie to me, so why should I lie to them? If I say something is great, when it isn't, it devalues those occasions when I really do think something is great. People know if they get a compliment from me, it means something.

The truth has never hurt me, it can sting for a bit, but it always makes me stronger. Lies/flattery are debasing, not upbuilding. I value people who know me well and tell me unpleasant things about myself, (not out of spite, but out of regard), people who reveal my blind spots - that's a useful service. I wish more people were so brave. I guess you have to be quite tough and sure of yourself to feel this way, and many people seem to be rather fragile.

I think this is a book primarily for extroverts. It is about breadth rather than depth in relationships.
The part about being "genuinely interested" in others: this is definitely easier for some types (e.g. ENFP/ENTP) than others. Their focus is naturally outward, they are naturally interested in other people/objects. It energizes them. I'm not like that. Most people bore my pants off. I'm sure it's mutual too. I'd like it if there were more people in the world that were genuinely interesting to me, or even tolerably so, but it is the way it is.

I don't think you can "win" true friends, you have to count yourself lucky when you stumble across them.

I came in on the conversation when INTJMom mentioned a haircut and you responded, that's why I used that example.

I understand what you're saying. What I don't understand is why you took out the words I used to say if someone asks, you can give them your negative opinion, but too many people are laying their negative opinions on others without being asked for the sake of being themselves.

It's cool when we stumble upon a person of like mind. It's also cool when we grow to appreciate someone more as time goes by through consideration, respect and allowing him to be himself without being criticized for it.

As for the rest, Lucrative Sid has an excellent take on it.

 

[Salomé]

I understand what you're saying. What I don't understand is why you took out the words I used to say if someone asks, you can give them your negative opinion, but too many people are laying their negative opinions on others without being asked for the sake of being themselves.

I didn't feel the need to quote/address that point since it seemed self-evident.
I realise the Carnegie approach would have been to cite our common ground and then point out where I differ. But who has time for that crap?

....
As for the rest, Lucrative Sid has an excellent take on it.

That might be your opinion.
I feel that you are trying to re-educate me, please don't bother - you don't know me well enough for your opinion to matter to me.

 

[ladypinkington]

Wow, lots of interesting points being made here- bluemonday- there is a proverb that jumps out at me when reading your replies- "the wounds of a friend are faithful." Listening to you makes me think about Kramer on Seinfeld,lol- and I mean that in a good way as I like his character- he was the one who could say to the girl who had a big nose- "Your just as pretty as any other girl- you just need a nose job" and then when she did get a nosejob she was butchered and he was the only one who said so- in the end he ended up with the girl as she appreciated his honesty.

For me I found the book to be helpful because I feel it gave me good tools for learning how to deal with conflict with people- how to get my points across in ways that might be better received and heard.

I don't intend to build phoney relationships or be ingenuine at all- it gave good incites as to how to go about being proactive with those whom I do desire to get to know better and build closer relationships with. I realized from the book that so much of the time I am more focused on what I want then what the other person wants and how people feel importantly differently.

It also gave me incite as how it is that other people make me like them, how other people win me to their ways of thinking. I also feel more confident because I feel I know more what to look out for in people who abuse the good prinicples made. I will be more aware of how people are trying to change me, sell to me, convince me, get closer to me both in good and bad ways. I feel that I can better help people know how to better convince me- or empower people in good ways on how to reach me and more effectively communicate to me, what they can do and say to help get me to do something or be more interested in something.

It made me realize how selfish I am really and that I should think more about the other person. How to better deal with conflict. How to help others deal with me better. I do not think the principles are bad-I feel like with all tools of empowerment- like a car for instance- it has more to do with the driver then with the vehicle as to its integrity and good purpose.

 

[proteanmix]

It seems to me that some people believe in order to be honest with someone you need to be scathing and if you're not being brutal you weren't honest. One must come at the expense of the other.

Most people can't handle the unvarnished truth about themselves (even hardcore Ts or those that say they want the truth. You don't really want it. ) and when they are open to hearing it they need to be eased into it. How someone gets eased into varies from person to person, but it seems to hold true in most cases. Especially when you're hitting a raw nerve with someone, those need to be handled with care. I've berated and been berated and my piddly experience tells me it doesn't work and it doesn't feel good when it's done to me.

The times when I'm most open to it is when I've had enough different people say I do some undesirable thing I think to myself, whoa this must really be a problem I need to work on. Other than that I'll be like whatever.

To answer the OP I've read the book. It helps if you have an genuine interest in people. I did think some portions were a bit fawning but I agree with the general concept. Life is so much easier when you don't have a trail of dead in your wake and or people praying for your death. I think there's a movie coming out soon called How to Lose Friends and Alienate People. Somebody try that out and tell me how it works.

 

[Salomé]

It seems to me that some people believe in order to be honest with someone you need to be scathing and if you're not being brutal you weren't honest. One must come at the expense of the other.

I don't see anyone saying that. I know I didn't.

Most people can't handle the unvarnished truth about themselves (even hardcore Ts or those that say they want the truth. You don't really want it. )

Untrue. I want it. I ask for it. I rarely get it. When I do, I love it, maybe not at first, but ultimately, I do, if it is the truth, and I am able to discern truth from invective.

 

[ygolo]

Well aren't you just awesome. Thank you.

Well said.

See he's following it already.

And knowing what little I do know about Beat, I believe it to be genuine.