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  1. #61
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And so much so, that this culture has two political parties - both parties of business - there is no social democratic party, as in other democracies. So this culture is essentially a one party State.
    That's only if you think liberalism is a monolith-there is a huge difference between a social-liberal and a liberal-conservative. Personally, the fact that we don't have a major political party affiliated with the Socialist International is one of the major reasons that the United States is the only country I can really identify with...I view American Exceptionalism as much more of a good thing than a bad thing.

    As for "how to win friends and influence people"...lets just say that I sucked at saleswork. I'm not so much concerned with influencing people as I am with being left the hell alone by people wishing to influence me.

  2. #62
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I've seen the book before and upon perusing it, my immediate thought was that it was for salesmen. Sure some of the concepts are true for making friends but can you really manufacture those things just by reading a book? It has to be genuine or it will come off as insincere in a real friendship.

  3. #63
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    I don't like it because it basically asks you to become a hypocrit.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    I don't like it because it basically asks you to become a hypocrit.
    How so?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #65
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    This book rubbed me the wrong way because it seemed like the advice given would only work for short-term deception. Sure, I can lavish false praise on a person all day long, patronize them, and slowly but surely manipulate them into liking me (and, consequently, more open to buying my products or services). But that's not what I take the word "friends" to mean at all, and I think the book should be retitled "How to sell yourself to people you don't know", or something to that effect.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #66
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    You have two problems with a book like this.

    1. You have to present the material in a practical and simple manner.
    2. There's not really a point in going into the philosophical underpinnings for being likable.

    If you would be loved, be lovable. What does being lovable mean? Interest in others and holding yourself to a standard of integrity. If this does not come naturally to you, how do you learn interest in others?

    The tactics presented in the book for "likability" are value neutral. If you're a sociopath, you will use them for anti-social purposes. Yet, I doubt they will ultimately be of much use as sociopaths inevitably reveal themselves. The real target for this book is for people who are good-hearted yet socially clueless. Why is it bad to provide ways for social retards to engage more successfully in society?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #67
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    Winning friends and influencing people is also an invitation for envy and deceit.

    You have a faucet on the left for the good, and a faucet on the right for the bad. Turn one faucet and the other turns with it.

    Consider what the quenching of your thirst is worth.

  8. #68
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This book rubbed me the wrong way because it seemed like the advice given would only work for short-term deception. Sure, I can lavish false praise on a person all day long, patronize them, and slowly but surely manipulate them into liking me (and, consequently, more open to buying my products or services). But that's not what I take the word "friends" to mean at all, and I think the book should be retitled "How to sell yourself to people you don't know", or something to that effect.
    Yes, but in its defence some of it is just asking people to grow up. For example, it warns against the compulsion to "win" an argument at all costs. It was right that all you win is the displeasure of people you best in argument, and you don't really gain anything. It's common sense for which some of us need reminders. You would indeed be a hypocrite if you continued a pretense that you don't care about "winning" but only about connecting with your interlocutor in a collaborative way to reach a conclusion when in fact winning is what drives you as a person (lord knows many of us do just that). However, I guess you get more out of it if you become the more magnanimous person who isn't merely pretending it.
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    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
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  9. #69
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    Being liked is overrated.

    For example - A workgroup gets together to talk about a topic and everyone openly agrees. However, some people had important opinions but didn't mention them to avoid an argument and still be liked by the other members of the group. This results in groupthink, a phenomena where people take worse decisions together in the name of "social skills".

    We don't all need to like each other. Personally, I prefer to work with people that don't like me - this way, I get more honest feedback and criticism. You learn more by arguing with people and hearing their different opinions. I really wouldn't like it if people would agree with everything I said, I would have the impression I'd never be learning anything.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    We don't all need to like each other. Personally, I prefer to work with people that don't like me - this way, I get more honest feedback and criticism.
    Eh, when people don't like me, they're usually too afraid I'm going to hit them to offer any criticism whatsoever. I've always had this intimidating presence, no idea why. *carves tic-tac-toe pattern into upper arm with Rambo knife*

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