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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    As Victor stated, the original audience for this book was the American salesman.
    Unfortunately, the word "salesman" doesn't garner much respect anymore, but proper salesmanship is an art.
    Discovering what the person wants, and then showing them how you can meet their need is what true selling is all about.
    Unfortunately, everyone gets a bad name when a few just try to make you buy something you don't want or need because of their own selfish desire.

    When I was learning how to sell, this book taught me the proper way to do it.
    And, inadvertently, I learned how to generally be more likeable to others.

  2. #32
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^ I hate the idea of selling anything to anyone. I have a BIG problem with salespeople.

  3. #33
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    As Victor stated, the original audience for this book was the American salesman.
    Unfortunately, the word "salesman" doesn't garner much respect anymore, but proper salesmanship is an art.
    Discovering what the person wants, and then showing them how you can meet their need is what true selling is all about.
    Unfortunately, everyone gets a bad name when a few just try to make you buy something you don't want or need because of their own selfish desire.

    When I was learning how to sell, this book taught me the proper way to do it.
    And, inadvertently, I learned how to generally be more likeable to others.

    Well-said.
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  4. #34
    Senior Member aguanile's Avatar
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    I don't care for salespeople either. If I am interested in something, I will find out about it, read about it, ask a friend about it. But don't push me.

  5. #35
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Haircuts? Who cares about haircuts? If someone asks and I hate it, I'll tell them. I won't be cruel, (well, not always) but I try to be honest. I think it's respectful. I don't want people to lie to me, so why should I lie to them? If I say something is great, when it isn't, it devalues those occasions when I really do think something is great. People know if they get a compliment from me, it means something.

    The truth has never hurt me, it can sting for a bit, but it always makes me stronger. Lies/flattery are debasing, not upbuilding. I value people who know me well and tell me unpleasant things about myself, (not out of spite, but out of regard), people who reveal my blind spots - that's a useful service. I wish more people were so brave. I guess you have to be quite tough and sure of yourself to feel this way, and many people seem to be rather fragile.

    I think this is a book primarily for extroverts. It is about breadth rather than depth in relationships.
    The part about being "genuinely interested" in others: this is definitely easier for some types (e.g. ENFP/ENTP) than others. Their focus is naturally outward, they are naturally interested in other people/objects. It energizes them. I'm not like that. Most people bore my pants off. I'm sure it's mutual too. I'd like it if there were more people in the world that were genuinely interesting to me, or even tolerably so, but it is the way it is.

    I don't think you can "win" true friends, you have to count yourself lucky when you stumble across them.
    I came in on the conversation when INTJMom mentioned a haircut and you responded, that's why I used that example.

    I understand what you're saying. What I don't understand is why you took out the words I used to say if someone asks, you can give them your negative opinion, but too many people are laying their negative opinions on others without being asked for the sake of being themselves.

    It's cool when we stumble upon a person of like mind. It's also cool when we grow to appreciate someone more as time goes by through consideration, respect and allowing him to be himself without being criticized for it.

    As for the rest, Lucrative Sid has an excellent take on it.
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  6. #36
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post

    I understand what you're saying. What I don't understand is why you took out the words I used to say if someone asks, you can give them your negative opinion, but too many people are laying their negative opinions on others without being asked for the sake of being themselves.
    I didn't feel the need to quote/address that point since it seemed self-evident.
    I realise the Carnegie approach would have been to cite our common ground and then point out where I differ. But who has time for that crap?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    ....
    As for the rest, Lucrative Sid has an excellent take on it.
    That might be your opinion.
    I feel that you are trying to re-educate me, please don't bother - you don't know me well enough for your opinion to matter to me.

  7. #37
    Rubber Nipple Salesperson ladypinkington's Avatar
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    Wow, lots of interesting points being made here- bluemonday- there is a proverb that jumps out at me when reading your replies- "the wounds of a friend are faithful." Listening to you makes me think about Kramer on Seinfeld,lol- and I mean that in a good way as I like his character- he was the one who could say to the girl who had a big nose- "Your just as pretty as any other girl- you just need a nose job" and then when she did get a nosejob she was butchered and he was the only one who said so- in the end he ended up with the girl as she appreciated his honesty.

    For me I found the book to be helpful because I feel it gave me good tools for learning how to deal with conflict with people- how to get my points across in ways that might be better received and heard.

    I don't intend to build phoney relationships or be ingenuine at all- it gave good incites as to how to go about being proactive with those whom I do desire to get to know better and build closer relationships with. I realized from the book that so much of the time I am more focused on what I want then what the other person wants and how people feel importantly differently.

    It also gave me incite as how it is that other people make me like them, how other people win me to their ways of thinking. I also feel more confident because I feel I know more what to look out for in people who abuse the good prinicples made. I will be more aware of how people are trying to change me, sell to me, convince me, get closer to me both in good and bad ways. I feel that I can better help people know how to better convince me- or empower people in good ways on how to reach me and more effectively communicate to me, what they can do and say to help get me to do something or be more interested in something.

    It made me realize how selfish I am really and that I should think more about the other person. How to better deal with conflict. How to help others deal with me better. I do not think the principles are bad-I feel like with all tools of empowerment- like a car for instance- it has more to do with the driver then with the vehicle as to its integrity and good purpose.
    Me and hubby made an RPG Nutrition Game
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  8. #38
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    It seems to me that some people believe in order to be honest with someone you need to be scathing and if you're not being brutal you weren't honest. One must come at the expense of the other.

    Most people can't handle the unvarnished truth about themselves (even hardcore Ts or those that say they want the truth. You don't really want it. ) and when they are open to hearing it they need to be eased into it. How someone gets eased into varies from person to person, but it seems to hold true in most cases. Especially when you're hitting a raw nerve with someone, those need to be handled with care. I've berated and been berated and my piddly experience tells me it doesn't work and it doesn't feel good when it's done to me.

    The times when I'm most open to it is when I've had enough different people say I do some undesirable thing I think to myself, whoa this must really be a problem I need to work on. Other than that I'll be like whatever.

    To answer the OP I've read the book. It helps if you have an genuine interest in people. I did think some portions were a bit fawning but I agree with the general concept. Life is so much easier when you don't have a trail of dead in your wake and or people praying for your death. I think there's a movie coming out soon called How to Lose Friends and Alienate People. Somebody try that out and tell me how it works.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #39
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    It seems to me that some people believe in order to be honest with someone you need to be scathing and if you're not being brutal you weren't honest. One must come at the expense of the other.
    I don't see anyone saying that. I know I didn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Most people can't handle the unvarnished truth about themselves (even hardcore Ts or those that say they want the truth. You don't really want it. )
    Untrue. I want it. I ask for it. I rarely get it. When I do, I love it, maybe not at first, but ultimately, I do, if it is the truth, and I am able to discern truth from invective.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Well aren't you just awesome. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Well said.
    See he's following it already.

    And knowing what little I do know about Beat, I believe it to be genuine.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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