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  1. #101
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Why would you like someone who you knew despised you? Would you find out why they dislike you or continue to like them despite what they feel towards you?
    I'm not saying I like them because they despise me, just that it isn't a factor in 'degree of likability' for me. Because the qualities I look for in people have nothing to do with how they feel about me personally. Is that really so unusual?
    I might be interested in knowing why they dislike me, but I wouldn't necessarily try to do anything about it.

  2. #102
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I'm not saying I like them because they despise me, just that it isn't a factor in 'degree of likability' for me. Because the qualities I look for in people have nothing to do with how they feel about me personally. Is that really so unusual?
    I might be interested in knowing why they dislike me, but I wouldn't necessarily try to do anything about it.
    I'm not going to say what you're describing is unusual, but it's not something I hear often which is why it's interesting to me.

    I don't think I could actively like someone who actively disliked me. I hope that I'm mature enough to be able to be able to say, I may not like this person but they do XYZ positive traits and other may like them. I can't be a hater. I may not dislike them back but I'd definitely migrate towards indifference and neutrality in my feelings towards them. I'd just avoid them whenever possible. To me it seems like an unrequited love kind of thing.

    Do your factors of likability widely differ from what Carnegie says makes someone likable or are there only a few points you don't agree with? What makes someone likable to you?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #103
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Do your factors of likability widely differ from what Carnegie says makes someone likable or are there only a few points you don't agree with? What makes someone likable to you?
    Well, stuff like "let the other person think it's his/her idea" is not really something that would make me like a person more. If something is my idea, or if something is their idea, I will probably know. Attempts to flatter me by insisting it was my idea will piss me off. And a lot of the other stuff in that book comes off as similar flattery techniques and patronization.
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  4. #104
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    These tips may not work on misanthropes.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #105
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    These tips may not work on misanthropes.
    , if his tips are not to be purely instrumental. I could see a misanthrope cynically exploiting the tips for her own ends, deriving malignant glee from the confirmation of her own poor views of humans while she successfully uses them.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #106
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    First of all, it is entirely possible to make someone think you like them when you actually don't (i.e. authenticity isn't a prerequisite).
    Okay, you're right. But you seriously run the risk of having the aura of fakeness around you. And the aura of fakeness is clearly unlikable even if you only base that conclusion on the responses in this thread.

    [/QUOTE]Secondly, if all that was required was to actually like the other person, I can't imagine that this book would have sold a single copy. [/QUOTE]

    Weeeelll, I'm not saying that liking the other person is all that's required. DC is saying you must start there, though.

    His pronouncements are written on stone tablets. I just felt like I wasn't connecting with people in an effective way and I learned something about communicating based on what he said.

  7. #107
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well, stuff like "let the other person think it's his/her idea" is not really something that would make me like a person more. If something is my idea, or if something is their idea, I will probably know. Attempts to flatter me by insisting it was my idea will piss me off. And a lot of the other stuff in that book comes off as similar flattery techniques and patronization.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    These tips may not work on misanthropes.
    +2

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    What makes someone likable to you?
    I like people with strong ethical values who are kind, honest, decent, passionate, intelligent, independent, respectful of boundaries and preferably, though not necessarily, amusing.

    If they dislike me because they think I'm an ass, that's cool. If they dislike me on ethical grounds, that actually increases, rather than detracts from, my appreciation.

  8. #108
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I like people with strong ethical values who are kind, honest, decent, passionate, intelligent, independent, respectful of boundaries and preferably, though not necessarily, amusing.
    OK, I'm not trying to needle you about this but how do you know these things about people unless you use some means of finding out this information? Very few people walk around with their ethical values on a custom tee.

    I'm guessing that if you want to find out if someone's independent you observe them long enough or you speak with them to know what their thoughts are on things, if they're funny, compassionate, whatever.

    Now when you're finding out where their head's at you are:

    • Genuinely interested in the other person?
    • Being a good listener? Encouraging that person to talk about themselves?
    • Talking in the terms of the other person's interest and disclosing yours?
    • Showing respect for the other person's opinions?
    • Beginning in a friendly way? (see once I saw that my insults were amusing to you I kept doing it. For as crazy at it was it was us being friendly with each other right?)
    • Giving honest and sincere appreciation?


    I'm just trying to figure out if you and Orangey disapprove of the concepts in the book on the whole or if they're just a few things that's souring everything for you. I don't agree with everything but it's enough in there that makes sense to me to know not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #109
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out if you and Orangey disapprove of the concepts in the book on the whole or if they're just a few things that's souring everything for you. I don't agree with everything but it's enough in there that makes sense to me to know not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    I think sometimes that introverts hate to admit that human relationships can be so simple. It puts the onus of getting along with people back on them rather than allowing them to rely on the idea that something is deficient with the rest of humanity.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #110
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I think sometimes that introverts hate to admit that human relationships can be so simple. It puts the onus of getting along with people back on them rather than allowing them to rely on the idea that something is deficient with the rest of humanity.
    I guess you've got us figured out then, huh? Your powers of insight are remarkable indeed :yim_phbbbbt:.



    Proteanmix: I will respond later when I have more time.
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