• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

breaking the law

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
Of course it is. But I'm not one to be shelling out advice on the law..

For breaking what you see is an unjust law - this is morally right with me, some people would even say it's patriotic.

In an extreme situation, whatever it is, I would just ask myself "do the ends justify the means", if it's worth it to break the law (and deal with those consequences) to get to whatever goal you have..
 

swordpath

New member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
10,547
MBTI Type
ISTx
Enneagram
5w6
Definitely. The law isn't man. It doesn't have a heart beat. Under dire or extreme circumstances, I can justify breaking the law.
 

563 740

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
294
MBTI Type
ENTP
Breaking the law under dire or extreme cases and circumstances - do you think this is right?

You don't know what its like, you dont have a clue.
If you did you'd find yourselves doing the same thing too!!!
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Of course. The law is just second-rate ethics. It's less ethically fulfilling because the law has to account for all kinds of practical limitations that comes from trying to manage tons of people at once.

But for you, at some given moment, you aren't bound to those same practical limitations, because you aren't trying to account for tons of people. You are trying to do something like save the life of a loved one, or something like that. So, you can do anything that falls within the viable realm of your own ethics. These things do, however, get you in trouble with the law often times (like, for instance, when it may be a really good idea to kill someone). That's because law writers, practioners, and enforces can't afford to see and account for ethical nuances the way one person right in the situation can.
 

Oleander

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
86
MBTI Type
INFP
Law is not ethics. If you break the law though, you must take responsibility for it within the law unless you can find a higher law to over-ride it. Then,whatever you feel about it, that your God told you to kill the Ungodly for instance, you submit to the law and if necessary get your 72 Heavenly Virgins. If you can justify your law-breaking within the same system instead of invoking your own laws, so "All men are equal" over-rides "Niggers to the back" that is an entirely different matter where a general law is agreed but not accepted.

Most people who make a big fuss of their morality in breaking the law to preserve their own alleged higher law are gross hypocrites with no ethical standing. It is only those who stood up to the likes of Stalin and Hitler who deserve respect; those too who refused combat even against evil-doers. "God condemns murderers so I murder abortionists" - can't God handle His own decisions without your help? Maybe God wanted us to work laws out for ourselves and between ourselves?
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
Yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say that almost anyone, under the right extreme circumstances, will break the law.
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
MBTI Type
iSFj
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Methinks we should make a poll asking who has broken the law and how. :D
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Probably the major difference would be how extreme or dire (to basically echo what everyone else has said :mellow: ).
 
Last edited:

bbites

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
40
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Definitions of "right" or "wrong" fall under people's moral standpoint. Ethically, I believe if a man steals medicine for his dying wife because he cannot afford it he should be punished. He committed a crime, he broke the law, and the only way justice can be blind is if that man is punished for his crime in a way that is agreed upon according to the law.

I would personally feel pity for that man but I still would firmly believe that he should be punished. I'm firm in my belief that the law should be very clear-cut to avoid any and all accusations of inequality or personal bias. People's moral "feelings" cannot have any standing in court room if we want the law to be respected.

I'm a US citizen living in the US, for the record, I don't know of other countries legal policies.
 

swordpath

New member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
10,547
MBTI Type
ISTx
Enneagram
5w6
I want to expound on my initial post in this thread. As others have pointed out, it can be justified to break the law under dire circumstances but you should be expectant to face whatever consequences may result. I don't feel like people are above the law or exempt, however, I don't think it's right for someone to unnecessarily suffer at the hands of an inanimate force. What one might think "dire" or "extreme" may not be that to me or someone else though. It's all dependent on the circumstances.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Just for the hell of it, I'm going to say "no."

Society functions best when people feel protected and life is predictable. We elect officials to design rules with these ends in mind because each individual can't be trusted to make the correct decision to further these ends. Even though you think you can make a better decision in dire circumstances -- better in the sense that it promotes safety or predictability -- allowing you to make that decision would permit others to violate the law in circumstances they consider "dire." Not only can't we trust people to make good decisions, there is no clear definition of what "dire" means. To adopt a position that individuals should be allowed to violate the law in "dire" circumstances would, in the long run, result in less predictability and less safety, even though the intent to to maximize these factors. Therefore, the position is inconsistent and flawed.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
Definitions of "right" or "wrong" fall under people's moral standpoint. Ethically, I believe if a man steals medicine for his dying wife because he cannot afford it he should be punished. He committed a crime, he broke the law, and the only way justice can be blind is if that man is punished for his crime in a way that is agreed upon according to the law.

I would personally feel pity for that man but I still would firmly believe that he should be punished. I'm firm in my belief that the law should be very clear-cut to avoid any and all accusations of inequality or personal bias. People's moral "feelings" cannot have any standing in court room if we want the law to be respected.

I'm a US citizen living in the US, for the record, I don't know of other countries legal policies.

I agree with the else-crowd that everything depends on the sort of "dire and extreme" happening. In the example provided.. yes, he should gladly accept his punishment. All actions have consequences, and just doing the "right" thing doesn't necessarily mean you'll have a "good" consequence. I'm reminded of that cheesy poster in school.. "Sometimes what is popular isn't always right, and sometimes what's right isn't always popular." Wise words that went over my head as a kid in elementary when I glanced at it everyday on my way to class.. but still engrained in my memory now.

I want to expound on my initial post in this thread. As others have pointed out, it can be justified to break the law under dire circumstances but you should be expectant to face whatever consequences may result. I don't feel like people are above the law or exempt, however, I don't think it's right for someone to unnecessarily suffer at the hands of an inanimate force. What one might think "dire" or "extreme" may not be that to me or someone else though. It's all dependent on the circumstances.

I'm very torn on what to say on this matter.. If a man is speeding because his wife is having a baby.. driving recklessly to get to the hospital. I believe he did what he believed was right, but he could have also put his wife and others in danger driving recklessly, in this case I would believe the man should be fined for his driving.. even though he did what he knew and believed to be right.

... To think of a movie circumstance, A Time to Kill... I'm not sure if I agree the law should be so devoid of emotion that the man in that movie were sentenced to death. Even though the law SHOULD be emotionless, it's not.. because humans are not. They're incapable of not having at least SOME emotion. Lawyers play on the emotions of the jury all the time to get them to empathize, sympathize, or feel angered by the person they are voting for or against. In the movie (spoilers right here if you have not seen it): The black man's daughter is raped and murdered, and in turn the system did not sentence the murderers even though they were obviously guilty.. the man in turn took his revenge and killed the murderers. The movie was all about morality, segregation, and where we draw the line between right and wrong.

.. I'm still not sure if I feel that the main character is guilty of murder, or if it really was an occasion where it was justified that he kill.
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
I break the law everyday, and basically have since I first started smoking weed when I was 14.

It's fine -- I know the consequences and I'll accept them if they ever come (which they probably won't, I've been caught red-handed by police officers)...
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
Anyone else have Judas Priest in their head every time you read this topic title?
 
Top