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View Poll Results: Which would you choose?

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  • High intelligence - Low creativity

    47 35.88%
  • Low intelligence - High creativity

    84 64.12%
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Results 71 to 80 of 144

  1. #71
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    If a person comes up with a new idea within a math or science field for example, that will most likely require high intelligence because they would need the capacity to learn math and science in the first place, but the person who comes up with art or music or who gets a great idea and invents some new ergonomic consumer product, I don't see how that necessarily requires high intelligence.
    So it has to do with subject?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #72
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    So it has to do with subject?
    Yeah, I think it's a reasonable distinction to make. Mastering chemistry requires one to learn a complex objective system, but with something like art, there is no real existing system which they must navigate through to "learn" and excel at creating art.

  3. #73
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Yeah, I think it's a reasonable distinction to make. Mastering chemistry requires one to learn a complex objective system, but with something like art, there is no real existing system which they must navigate through to "learn" and excel at creating art.
    How could we tell that the people who are artistically creative but not necessarily science or math majors don't actually have the capacity to learn those things? It seems like the only basis that we would have for saying that some people are creative but not intelligent is because those people don't bother themselves to learn certain subjects (namely, the ones we value like math or science). Or maybe never had the opportunity. In any case, I don't think that's a fair measure of one's capacity to learn those things. And if we can't measure one's capacity to learn those things by observing what they do or do not already know, then how do we know that there are creative and unintelligent people out there?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #74
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Creativity is about generating new ideas/methods/ways/associations. Solving a complex math problem, for example, requires abstraction, but it doesn't necessarily require the solver to come up with new ideas, just to learn existing systems and frameworks.
    Mathematicians, philosophers, and professional scientists are expected to come up with new ideas about their fields. In scholarly journals you see many papers regarding new ways to think about mathematics, philosophy or the sciences and new concepts and theories in the field. Original thinking is vital in those academical enterprises. Moreover, when you're solving complex math problems you need to think of new and more efficient ways to solve them. Secondly, even if you're not solving a math problem in a novel way, you're still required to use your imagination a lot to imagine all the complexities of the problem. If you could do that, you should have no problem coming up with new ideas. As you mention coming up with new ideas requires imagination, and you need that same imagination to work out complex problems even if not concocting new ideas in the process!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  5. #75
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    How could we tell that the people who are artistically creative but not necessarily science or math majors don't actually have the capacity to learn those things? It seems like the only basis that we would have for saying that some people are creative but not intelligent is because those people don't bother themselves to learn certain subjects (namely, the ones we value like math or science). Or maybe never had the opportunity. In any case, I don't think that's a fair measure of one's capacity to learn those things. And if we can't measure one's capacity to learn those things by observing what they do or do not already know, then how do we know that there are creative and unintelligent people out there?
    The only way I can think of for finding out if high intelligence and high creativity always coincide is if a study tested IQ and equated creativity to divergent thinking, which is testable, and tested that.

    On the other side, I can't think of a good argument on why a creative person must, because of that, also be intelligent.

  6. #76
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The only way I can think of for finding out if high intelligence and high creativity always coincide is if a study tested IQ and equated creativity to divergent thinking, which is testable, and tested that.
    Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    On the other side, I can't think of a good argument on why a creative person must, because of that, also be intelligent.
    Neither can I, but I also can't think of any good arguments to suppose that creativity can exist without intelligence.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #77
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Mathematicians, philosophers, and professional scientists are expected to come up with new ideas about their fields. In scholarly journals you see many papers regarding new ways to think about mathematics, philosophy or the sciences and new concepts and theories in the field. Original thinking is vital in those academical enterprises. Moreover, when you're solving complex math problems you need to think of new and more efficient ways to solve them. Secondly, even if you're not solving a math problem in a novel way, you're still required to use your imagination a lot to imagine all the complexities of the problem. If you could do that, you should have no problem coming up with new ideas. As you mention coming up with new ideas requires imagination, and you need that same imagination to work out complex problems even if not concocting new ideas in the process!
    Just because someone is utilizing abstraction and imagination, doesn't mean they are coming up with anything new. It's not necessarily creative.

  8. #78
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Neither can I, but I also can't think of any good arguments to suppose that creativity can exist without intelligence.
    Well, some degree of intelligence is needed. I suppose the dispute is simply on "how much?".

  9. #79
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Just because someone is utilizing abstraction and imagination, doesn't mean they are coming up with anything new. It's not necessarily creative.
    No, but people who are able to think abstractly also have the ability to come up with something new because you need imagination to do both.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #80
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    No, but people who are able to think abstractly also have the ability to come up with something new because you need imagination to do both.
    They say that creativity increases with IQ up until an IQ of 110, then above that IQ doesn't matter as much in determining creativity.

    This is from something I read a while ago, I don't have a link.

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