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  1. #41

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    Do non-theists typically not believe in free will?

  2. #42
    Member Oleander's Avatar
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    I don't see how freewill is necessarily religion-based or not, though in a general way it is something that is either believed or not. Extreme Calvinism excludes freewill except for God (which makes its whole religious basis pointless - you can't help what you do and whether God calls you or not depends on God).

    I take the view that all religions are the symbols of a former age that have become taken literally. They should go on to a metaphysical interpretation along the lines that this image you've been given of a God-person really stands for your own understanding and relationships as part of a working whole that is more than individual reactions to animal responses. It's become like children taking the equations of physics as a substitution code because they have no idea what all the symbols stand for.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum View Post
    Do non-theists typically not believe in free will?
    There does seem to be a general tendency nowadays for non-theists to reject free will. But theoretically speaking, no, one can be a non-theist and still believe in free will. This is generally termed Voluntarism.

    Assuming God is as benevolent as many would like to believe she is,
    Hey that's real cute!

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    Member Oleander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    There does seem to be a general tendency nowadays for non-theists to reject free will. But theoretically speaking, no, one can be a non-theist and still believe in free will. This is generally termed Voluntarism.
    Well that's quantum uncertainty settled. No-one can believe in an omniscient God and Freewill either since that would mean God would not know what any individual is going to do. Qantum physics and a view of the material world as the summation of all possibilities is the only true reconciliation. Mystics always said very much the same thing, that there are many probable worlds but they do not really exist in any physical sense.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    No-one can believe in an omniscient God and Freewill either since that would mean God would not know what any individual is going to do.
    You're aware of the conflict between Compatibilism and Incompatibilism?

    Mystics always said very much the same thing, that there are many probable worlds but they do not really exist in any physical sense.
    What mystical traditions preach this? I'm not familiar with such a concept existing within the Christian mystical tradition, unless you're referring to the Gnostics.

  6. #46
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum View Post
    Do non-theists typically not believe in free will?
    There is no scientific basis to believe in free will, rather than all our thoughts and actions being pre-determined by our brain chemistry and nervous system interacting with external stimuli. People who reject the metaphysical (i.e. "theism," though my use of the term reflects my desire for parsimony rather than accuracy) implicitly reject the existence of free will as well.

    As for Calvinism, pre-destination is not the same as the absence of free will (our capacity for self-willed choice would be spiritually irrelevent rather than non-existent), though I agree that its an unnactractive theology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    "Free will" is a faith-based concept, and I think the ability to believe in it is a major reason theists are generally happier than non-theists-and if the metaphysical dosn't exist, then utilitarian consequences are all that matter.
    I agree, actually. I meant "free will" more figuratively than literally. "Go ahead, sacrifice your autonomy for security." Such an SJ line of thought, so anti-NT.

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