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  1. #31
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Hey, what about MY questions?
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Hey, what about MY questions?
    I thought those were meant to be rhetorical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    What is "real"? What is "true"? What is a "lie"? Sometimes I think that is so much more relevant than "What is God?"

    Also, what is "everything" and "nothing"?
    RE: "everything" and "nothing", the answer would change depending on who you are asking. I think the easiest way to give you my definition is just by rephrasing the statements themselves.

    I think this is the way most theists view the first statement:

    "If you believe in God, and he turns out to not be real, then you don't go to hell, but if he is real, you get to go to heaven."

    The meaning of "everything" is different for the non-theist:

    Everything, whether God turns out to be real or not, is simply all that has absence of religion as a prerequisite.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum View Post
    I thought those were meant to be rhetorical.
    No, not at all. It matters--what is "real"? What does it mean to believe something is REAL or TRUE?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    No, not at all. It matters--what is "real"? What does it mean to believe something is REAL or TRUE?
    It means an assumption was made.

  5. #35
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum View Post
    The first quote should suffice to describe the version of the God I had in mind when I made this thread.

    The second quote describes my take on an "improved" version of it.
    Direct me to it, because I do not recall seeing a coherent and thorough definition of any particular entity in this thread.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Direct me to it, because I do not recall seeing a coherent and thorough definition of any particular entity in this thread.
    How about using a little of that N in your INTP?

  7. #37
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjeffgoldblum View Post
    How about using a little of that N in your INTP?
    No thanks. Just an attempt on your part to make what is implausible appear plausible. Sound thought needs no appeal to mysticism, it can be stated clearly and thoroughly.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    No thanks. Just an attempt on your part to make what is implausible appear plausible. Sound thought needs no appeal to mysticism, it can be stated clearly and thoroughly.
    Why, then, are you the only one that doesn't know what I'm talking about? How can I not appeal to mysticism when talking about God? This thread is not about truth. It is about my perception of the general perception of God that I have so far observed in America which is BEST defined, in my opinion, by the first statement I gave.

  9. #39
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    Pascal's wager = *fart*

    Simplified, it's essentially asking atheists, "What if you're wrong?" The most obvious response is "What if you're wrong?" Worse yet, what if you're half wrong? A blissfully ignorant (but blissful!) life isn't the only possible outcome for a Christian. What if it turns out that Islam was right? Then you lost just as bad as the atheists.

    Besides, even if heaven and hell do exist I'd rather live my life the way I want to live it and wind up in Hell for it than not and wind up in heaven. Heaven and Hell are unchangeable. It's either eternal torment or eternal bliss. Seems the only place any of the decisions that we make will have an impact is right here on earth. Do you really think anyone wins if the purpose of our lives is to achieve a life without purpose? Best to actually do something positive in the only place that matters and suffer for it, I say.

    And my temperament has a huge problem with the will-doesn't-matter connotation it carries with it. Go ahead, take the blue pill. What does your free will matter so long as your comfortable with your ignorance? Go to hell.

  10. #40
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Googly_Eyes View Post
    What does your free will matter so long as your comfortable with your ignorance?
    "Free will" is a faith-based concept, and I think the ability to believe in it is a major reason theists are generally happier than non-theists-and if the metaphysical dosn't exist, then utilitarian consequences are all that matter.

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