God

[Salomé]

.

 

[swordpath]

 

[Salomé]

.

 

[Eileen]

Now I'm intrigued. Do tell

Well, I'm not going to give you an entire course in gender and Christianity; I don't have time for that. But in early Christianity, there was a good bit of gender-bending--some from men, but more from women (because hegemony being what it is, women had more of a challenge). There is an interesting presence on "eunuchs" in the New Testament, and it wasn't because men were running around castrating themselves. A weird element of the early church is that somehow, people should be "de-sexed." For a woman in the early church, this is quite empowering, but for men, it would tend to be the opposite.

Where women TEND to be subjugated in the New Testament, Paul is doing it (with some help from Peter, but not Jesus, which is very relevant to me). Jesus talks to women and includes them in his life and ministry in ways that some found offensive. Jesus regularly talked to the people who others wouldn't. Women were among those.

There are some bizarre (to us) places in the New Testament where Paul (or whoever... Paul didn't write all the Pauline epistles, for sure) puts some kind of restriction on women (cover your head) while also revealing an authoritative presence (cover your head... while you are prophesying and teaching). It makes the "women shouldn't teach" passages in the Timothies kind of confounding.

It's not simple, and obviously it's not perfect, and clearly there are places within modern Christendom where there is still not the ideal unity between Jew/Greek, slave/free, male/female... but it's also not a categoric waste of a religion with regard to those things.

 

[ThatGirl]

God

yes?

 

[Oleander]

God is "Love", and the original is better translated "Compassion". Does the OT Jehovah sound a bit different? That's OK, St.Paul had a good rant about "Whatsoever in Scripture is of Agapeh (The Greek translated as Love or Compassion) is of The God (God is not a personal name, it is avoidance of personality) ... and ... whatsoever is not is of Man" That is, of 'Man' like the mad King Saul raving genocidal "Because God told me to do it" like suicide bombers and abortionist murderers today.

The True 'God' is Compassion. For some backward people that can mean imagining a 'Super-person' who orders or does Compassion, but the fact is that true human beings should understand abstracts enough to elevate Compassion for all living beings to the position that moralistic gods hold for primitives.

 

[Orangey]

God is "Love", and the original is better translated "Compassion". Does the OT Jehovah sound a bit different? That's OK, St.Paul had a good rant about "Whatsoever in Scripture is of Agapeh (The Greek translated as Love or Compassion) is of The God (God is not a personal name, it is avoidance of personality) ... and ... whatsoever is not is of Man" That is, of 'Man' like the mad King Saul raving genocidal "Because God told me to do it" like suicide bombers and abortionist murderers today.

The True 'God' is Compassion. For some backward people that can mean imagining a 'Super-person' who orders or does Compassion, but the fact is that true human beings should understand abstracts enough to elevate Compassion for all living beings to the position that moralistic gods hold for primitives.

[insert wrongheaded misinterpretation of words in above post]

 

[ajblaise]

I think you may be getting into troublesome territory with the bolded comment. Not least because 'abortionists' don't perform abortion because God told them to do it, heh. That would be quite an odd proposition indeed. And also because I don't think many people who support abortion will be pleased with being equated at the moral level with terrorists (which is to say that it's kind of uncalled for, since death is the only thing that they share with each other. And if that's the only criteria for qualifying as morally equal to terrorism, then so is capital punishment, war, old age, etc...).

I thought Oleander was talking about people who kill "abortionists" or bomb abortion clinics, not the actual abortion practitioners.... at least I think.

 

[Orangey]

I thought Oleander was talking about people who kill "abortionists" or bomb abortion clinics, not the actual abortion practitioners.... at least I think.

Ah, abortionist murderers. I thought that the murderers bit was an added description of the abortionists, not the murderers of abortionists. Well then, I'll go ahead and get off my high horse. Oleander...disregard my last post!

Lol.

 

[Mole]

Presence precedes absence

His being present for us is supposed to be a promise. If we call to him, he will answer. In a way he has bound himself to us, therefore, can I not hold him accountable in his absence?

Her presence is only concealed by Her absence.

And naturally we imitate Her here.

So our presence is only concealed by our absence.

If we post, we are present. And if we don't post, we are absent.

And the foreground of our presence can only be seen against the background of our absence.

And interestingly, our absence is only foregrounded against the background of our presence.

But we must post first before our absence can be noted.

So presence takes precedence.

 

[Journey]

Know that I love each of you with a committed love that has little to do with emotion. I would do you good and not harm always. What I say is strong to help, not to irritatate or aggravate. Please take it as it is intended.

Rom 1:20-23
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
NIV

If presence is all it takes:

David's experience is the common one for the Christian that God is present (and God did show up in human flesh in Jesus):

Ps 139:7-10
Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
NIV

We are seperated from God because of our own sin. God cannot be seen by us because we are sinful and He is Holy. The only way we can experience Him right now in this life is to accept the forgiveness of our sins through the atoning work of Jesus on the Cross for us and repent and call on Him as Lord and Savior. To experience God's presence:

Jer 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
NIV

Deut 4:29-30
29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
NIV

Matt 7:7-8
7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
NIV

Some people God comes to and strikes blind calling them to Himself, like Paul on the road to Damascus. Other people struggle to find Him for years before He comes to them. God isn't what we would call fair, He is Just. It would be a terrible thing to miss Him just because we failed to do our homework. Knowing Him and revealing Him is the point of life. After all we were created to be image bearers.

 

[Orangey]

Genesis 38: 6 - 10

Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn; her name was Tamar.
But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death.
Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.”
But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother.
What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

I find this passage to be particularly inspiring. Why, just this day it made me so happy that I showed up to my morning class a half hour early. And I hate mornings.

 

[Journey]

What I find inspiring from this passage ^ is that God is so Gracious and doesn't give us all what we deserve for our sin. Each act deserves death and eternal damnation, but we don't get that for each act of sin. That's God's Patience and Longsuffering of our sin. His Grace IS truly amazing.

 

[Orangey]

What I find inspiring from this passage ^ is that God is so Gracious and doesn't give us all what we deserve for our sin. Each act deserves death and eternal damnation, but we don't get that for each act of sin. That's God's Patience and Longsuffering of our sin. His Grace IS truly amazing.

Ehrm...if that's what gets you through the day, more power to you.

 

[Night]

Each act deserves death and eternal damnation, but we don't get that for each act of sin. That's God's Patience and Longsuffering of our sin. His Grace IS truly amazing.

Sentiments like this always hit a weird note for me.

Does this line of thought derive from a sense of spiritual guilt over your visceral impulses?

If so, do you believe non-religious authority figures in your life receive similar reverence? That is to say, would you consider yourself overly respectful of social hierarchy as a result of your commitment to Christian penitence?

 

[burkeus]

The image of God can take form and embodiment through every man - the epileptic, the schizophrenic, the prostitute, the poor and rejected. They all can at any time step upon the stage, when the moment of inspiration comes, and give their version of the meaning which the universe has for them. God is always within and among us, as he is for children. Instead of coming down from the skies, he comes in by way of the stage door.

Moreno

 

[Journey]

Sentiments like this always hit a weird note for me.

They must sound weird to someone with a Godless perspective. (Correct me here if I am wrong and I will apologize profusely.)

Does this line of thought derive from a sense of spiritual guilt over your visceral impulses?

No, it derives primarily from my understanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam fell and with him all mankind was cursed with death. So we are born in sin with a nature to sin. That coupled with an understanding of God's Holy and Perfect nature that He cannot look upon sin makes me thankful for His Graciousness in being Longsuffering toward our sin and that He made a way for us to reconcile ourselves with Him by taking Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins to give us a righteousness that is not our own but nonetheless reconciles us fully to Him when we take Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

(I do understand what you are trying to get at with your question, e.g. does lust cause a spiritual guilt that I am trying to assuage by calling myself a no good stinking worm worthy only of condemnation... The answer is NO.)

If so, do you believe non-religious authority figures in your life receive similar reverence? That is to say, would you consider yourself overly respectful of social hierarchy as a result of your commitment to Christian penitence?

I render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.

 

[Night]

They must sound weird to someone with a Godless perspective. (Correct me here if I am wrong and I will apologize profusely.)

You are incorrect, but please do not apologize.

No, it derives primarily from my understanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam fell and with him all mankind was cursed with death. So we are born in sin with a nature to sin. That coupled with an understanding of God's Holy and Perfect nature that He cannot look upon sin makes me thankful for His Graciousness in being Longsuffering toward our sin and that He made a way for us to reconcile ourselves with Him by taking Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins to give us a righteousness that is not our own but nonetheless reconciles us fully to God when we take Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

(I do understand what you are trying to get at with your question, e.g. does lust cause a spiritual guilt that I am trying to assuage by calling myself a nogood stinking worm worthy only of condemnation... The answer is NO.)

I render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.

Thank you - your answer was precisely what I was hoping for.

 

[Eric B]

Since the question of the soul vs. spirit often comes up in discussions of God and spirituality, maybe I should have started this topic http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-between-soul-spirit-11-primary-emotions.html over here. (I thought that was such an interesting topic, and it was totally slept on).

 

[Eileen]

They must sound weird to someone with a Godless perspective. (Correct me here if I am wrong and I will apologize profusely.)

Well, I have to say that I, a Christian (an agnostic one, I suppose), have often had trouble with statements like yours. I know that it's couched in grace, but still--it presents a notion of God that is fundamentally contrary to my experience... the notion that with one hand, God loves us, and with the other, God may potentially zap us with the naughty stick. My experience of God is that it is all compassion, all love, all transformation of consciousness, and my experience of sin (and hell) is not so much a grave misdeed that needs to be paid for but instead a perspective that needs to be redirected. But I'm a heretic, I guess, and I don't relate to atonement theology such as this:

No, it derives primarily from my understanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam fell and with him all mankind was cursed with death. So we are born in sin with a nature to sin. That coupled with an understanding of God's Holy and Perfect nature that He cannot look upon sin makes me thankful for His Graciousness in being Longsuffering toward our sin and that He made a way for us to reconcile ourselves with Him by taking Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins to give us a righteousness that is not our own but nonetheless reconciles us fully to Him when we take Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

On that note, I read tonight in my book club book that the greater sacrifice between the incarnation and the crucifixion was actually the incarnation. I'd like to go on about this, but maybe I'll just start another thread some other time.