God

[Eileen]

Ah, there was a time in my life when I could have (and would have) responded at length to this topic. I kind of miss those days.

I think that it is likely that there is no literal god, but I think that it is *true* that there is value to observing and appreciating something figurative. This is a complicated point of view and one that I currently have trouble articulating.

That said--I go to church, and I serve at Eucharist, and I say the prayers of the people, and I work with young people in their "walks with God" because while I often doubt the literal, I have great faith in the figurative that flows through us in love, compassion, mercy, and grace. I connect very, very strongly to the notion of the "Body of Christ"--a collective conscious, if you will, that (at its best) can be a salve in the world.

 

[burkeus]

I would like to know why God is depicted as male.

 

[Bella]

...feminist thread in 4...3...2..

 

[Eileen]

I would like to know why God is depicted as male.

1. Because we are used to engendering things.
2. Because Western society has a fairly patriarchal background (even in Xianity, eastern traditions are more likely to envision a feminine spirit than western)
3. Because, at least in the story of Xianity, a god that could be conceived as without gender (though it wasn't) was incarnate and by necessity engendered.

As for me, I don't think of God as male, and Jesus's maleness is irrelevant. And in fairness, for all the gender nonsense that exists, Christianity at least (it's what I know, it's my context, and it's what I'm talking about at the moment) does have clear attempts to destabilize gender norms.

 

[burkeus]

3. Because, at least in the story of Xianity, a god that could be conceived as without gender (though it wasn't) was incarnate and by necessity engendered.

God being incarnate doesn't necessitate gender.

 

[Eileen]

God being incarnate doesn't necessitate gender.

I suppose that you could have had a neuter or hermaphroditic Jesus, but if the notion is that God became an ordinary person in Jesus (was enfleshed), I think it makes sense that Jesus had to be "sexed" if not engendered.

Whether Jesus had a "gender identity" may be another question entirely. But it makes sense that Christians project a gender onto their incarnate god.

 

[burkeus]

...feminist thread in 4...3...2..

I don't know what your definition of "feminist" is but I don't think I'm talking about feminism. To me, males are strong, action oriented and in most definitions of the word, powerful. Females by contrast hold the secrets of the subtle realm, and are more likely to be in touch with mystery and love. Both are necessary to the idea or concept of who and what God is. Therefore, I believe God is a combination of those male and female energies which is why I feel more comfortable with religions honouring both God and Goddess.

 

[burkeus]

Whether Jesus had a "gender identity" may be another question entirely. But it makes sense that Christians project a gender onto their incarnate god.

Yeah, leave it to Cristians to project a MALE gender onto their God.

 

[ajblaise]

And in fairness, for all the gender nonsense that exists, Christianity at least (it's what I know, it's my context, and it's what I'm talking about at the moment) does have clear attempts to destabilize gender norms.

yea exactly..

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husband" (Colossians 3:18-19; see 1 Peter 3:1; Ephesians 5:22).

"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed" (Exodus 21:7-8).

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her" (Deuteronomy 25:11-12).

"And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to a husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged: they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering" (Leviticus 19:20-21).

 

[burkeus]

I don't know who you are quoting the bible the way you do, but you're not me.

 

[Eileen]

yea exactly..

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husband" (Colossians 3:18-19; see 1 Peter 3:1; Ephesians 5:22).

"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed" (Exodus 21:7-8).

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her" (Deuteronomy 25:11-12).

"And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to a husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged: they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering" (Leviticus 19:20-21).

The thing about the bible is that you can use it to your own ends. It's a problem when people insist on taking it literally and as totally consistent and divinely inspired. There are also plenty of examples of Jesus treating women with radical consideration, and there is a passage in Galatians that was probably an early baptismal vow that "in Christ, there is no male nor female."

I've spent a decent amount of time considering gender in Early Christianity. I'm not claiming "expertise" here or anything, but I can say very surely that you are simplifying things (as fundamentalists do) by merely quoting passages from the Bible.

Now I must do my real job.

 

[ajblaise]

The thing about the bible is that you can use it to your own ends. It's a problem when people insist on taking it literally and as totally consistent and divinely inspired. There are also plenty of examples of Jesus treating women with radical consideration, and there is a passage in Galatians that was probably an early baptismal vow that "in Christ, there is no male nor female."

I've spent a decent amount of time considering gender in Early Christianity. I'm not claiming "expertise" here or anything, but I can say very surely that you are simplifying things (as fundamentalists do) by merely quoting passages from the Bible.

Now I must do my real job.

No matter which way you cut it, in context out of context, the OT says some nasty, horrible, harsh, brutal... things. What I've seen several Christians do, addressing the OT, is distance themselves from it. I can't fault them for that.

I have no problem with Christians taking the Bible "literally and as totally consistent and divinely inspired" because strict adherence is what this certain religion requires and asks for.

It's true that you can use the Bible to justify basically any ideology.. a lot of that speaks to the contradictions and vagueness of the Bible. I wouldn't fault anyone other than the Bible writers for that.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Yeah, leave it to Cristians to project a MALE gender onto their God.

That's not your god, it's a man, baby!

[Youtube="WgOIEGz7o_s"]That's a man, baby![/youtube]

 

[Bella]

I don't know what your definition of "feminist" is but I don't think I'm talking about feminism. To me, males are strong, action oriented and in most definitions of the word, powerful. Females by contrast hold the secrets of the subtle realm, and are more likely to be in touch with mystery and love. Both are necessary to the idea or concept of who and what God is. Therefore, I believe God is a combination of those male and female energies which is why I feel more comfortable with religions honouring both God and Goddess.

No, I was joking about the thread potentially becoming a feminist thread. It wasn't directed at what you said. (not in a serious way)

 

[Johnny23]

God is. Male or Female it doesn't matter.

 

[Salomé]

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[Mitzy]

I LOVE JESUSSSS!

organized religion is made up


i dont believe in someone living their life now in prepare for their after life
i mean cmon thats the dumbest shit ive ever heard.
you were born into this world which youre not even happy in because youre just following all these rules and regulations and for what? for something else to happen after? what a waste of fucking time..itd be funny if there was nothing after death. i bet theyd have a lot of regrets for not living their life how they wanted and to their fullest.


i have my own beliefs. agnostic, i suppose. why? because some things science cant explain. neither can reason.

but like i said before, open up an anthropology book if you want to understand humans and their relation to religion.

 

[redacted]

What does God mean to you?

A symbol of repression.

Is it something conscious?

Yes, I consciously think of "God" as a coping mechanism people use so that they don't have to face the "ugly" truth. (which isn't actually so ugly, it's so pretty how everything works together...)

Do you believe in the literal existence of something you identify as God? Why or why not?

Depends on definition. If you want to define God as the laws of physics, then yes. If you want to define God as the God of the Old testament, no -- but then that question is like asking "do you believe in Harry Potter"? Weird question.

Does this God exist in the same space and time as us?

If God exists in different space and time, then the question of his existence is completely irrelevant. He may exist, but he wouldn't affect any part of our reality, so he'd be functionally useless.

What do you believe God's meaning is in relation to humanity was a whole? Why is God important or not important at all?

Again, it's a repression mechanism. The concept is important because it shows how desperate we are as humans to "find" these satisfying answers -- we will believe in ludicrous things just because we want to. It shows the limit of human thought, which is a good psychological idea to study.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I LOVE JESUSSSS!

organized religion is made up


i dont believe in someone living their life now in prepare for their after life
i mean cmon thats the dumbest shit ive ever heard.
you were born into this world which youre not even happy in because youre just following all these rules and regulations and for what? for something else to happen after? what a waste of fucking time..itd be funny if there was nothing after death. i bet theyd have a lot of regrets for not living their life how they wanted and to their fullest.


i have my own beliefs. agnostic, i suppose. why? because some things science cant explain. neither can reason.

but like i said before, open up an anthropology book if you want to understand humans and their relation to religion.

I thought you left...

 

[Salomé]

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