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  1. #71
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    Know that I love each of you with a committed love that has little to do with emotion. I would do you good and not harm always. What I say is strong to help, not to irritatate or aggravate. Please take it as it is intended.

    Rom 1:20-23
    20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
    NIV

    If presence is all it takes:

    David's experience is the common one for the Christian that God is present (and God did show up in human flesh in Jesus):

    Ps 139:7-10
    Where can I go from your Spirit?
    Where can I flee from your presence?
    8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
    if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
    9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
    if I settle on the far side of the sea,
    10 even there your hand will guide me,
    your right hand will hold me fast.
    NIV

    We are seperated from God because of our own sin. God cannot be seen by us because we are sinful and He is Holy. The only way we can experience Him right now in this life is to accept the forgiveness of our sins through the atoning work of Jesus on the Cross for us and repent and call on Him as Lord and Savior. To experience God's presence:

    Jer 29:13
    You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
    NIV

    Deut 4:29-30
    29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
    NIV

    Matt 7:7-8
    7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
    NIV

    Some people God comes to and strikes blind calling them to Himself, like Paul on the road to Damascus. Other people struggle to find Him for years before He comes to them. God isn't what we would call fair, He is Just. It would be a terrible thing to miss Him just because we failed to do our homework. Knowing Him and revealing Him is the point of life. After all we were created to be image bearers.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  2. #72
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Genesis 38: 6 - 10

    Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn; her name was Tamar.
    But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord put him to death.
    Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.”
    But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother.
    What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

    I find this passage to be particularly inspiring. Why, just this day it made me so happy that I showed up to my morning class a half hour early. And I hate mornings.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #73
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    What I find inspiring from this passage ^ is that God is so Gracious and doesn't give us all what we deserve for our sin. Each act deserves death and eternal damnation, but we don't get that for each act of sin. That's God's Patience and Longsuffering of our sin. His Grace IS truly amazing.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

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    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    What I find inspiring from this passage ^ is that God is so Gracious and doesn't give us all what we deserve for our sin. Each act deserves death and eternal damnation, but we don't get that for each act of sin. That's God's Patience and Longsuffering of our sin. His Grace IS truly amazing.
    Ehrm...if that's what gets you through the day, more power to you.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #75
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Each act deserves death and eternal damnation, but we don't get that for each act of sin. That's God's Patience and Longsuffering of our sin. His Grace IS truly amazing.
    Sentiments like this always hit a weird note for me.

    Does this line of thought derive from a sense of spiritual guilt over your visceral impulses?

    If so, do you believe non-religious authority figures in your life receive similar reverence? That is to say, would you consider yourself overly respectful of social hierarchy as a result of your commitment to Christian penitence?

  6. #76
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    The image of God can take form and embodiment through every man - the epileptic, the schizophrenic, the prostitute, the poor and rejected. They all can at any time step upon the stage, when the moment of inspiration comes, and give their version of the meaning which the universe has for them. God is always within and among us, as he is for children. Instead of coming down from the skies, he comes in by way of the stage door.

    Moreno

  7. #77
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Sentiments like this always hit a weird note for me.
    They must sound weird to someone with a Godless perspective. (Correct me here if I am wrong and I will apologize profusely.)

    Does this line of thought derive from a sense of spiritual guilt over your visceral impulses?
    No, it derives primarily from my understanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam fell and with him all mankind was cursed with death. So we are born in sin with a nature to sin. That coupled with an understanding of God's Holy and Perfect nature that He cannot look upon sin makes me thankful for His Graciousness in being Longsuffering toward our sin and that He made a way for us to reconcile ourselves with Him by taking Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins to give us a righteousness that is not our own but nonetheless reconciles us fully to Him when we take Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

    (I do understand what you are trying to get at with your question, e.g. does lust cause a spiritual guilt that I am trying to assuage by calling myself a no good stinking worm worthy only of condemnation... The answer is NO.)

    If so, do you believe non-religious authority figures in your life receive similar reverence? That is to say, would you consider yourself overly respectful of social hierarchy as a result of your commitment to Christian penitence?
    I render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  8. #78
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    They must sound weird to someone with a Godless perspective. (Correct me here if I am wrong and I will apologize profusely.)
    You are incorrect, but please do not apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    No, it derives primarily from my understanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam fell and with him all mankind was cursed with death. So we are born in sin with a nature to sin. That coupled with an understanding of God's Holy and Perfect nature that He cannot look upon sin makes me thankful for His Graciousness in being Longsuffering toward our sin and that He made a way for us to reconcile ourselves with Him by taking Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins to give us a righteousness that is not our own but nonetheless reconciles us fully to God when we take Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

    (I do understand what you are trying to get at with your question, e.g. does lust cause a spiritual guilt that I am trying to assuage by calling myself a nogood stinking worm worthy only of condemnation... The answer is NO.)

    I render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.
    Thank you - your answer was precisely what I was hoping for.

  9. #79
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Since the question of the soul vs. spirit often comes up in discussions of God and spirituality, maybe I should have started this topic http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-emotions.html over here. (I thought that was such an interesting topic, and it was totally slept on).
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    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    They must sound weird to someone with a Godless perspective. (Correct me here if I am wrong and I will apologize profusely.)
    Well, I have to say that I, a Christian (an agnostic one, I suppose), have often had trouble with statements like yours. I know that it's couched in grace, but still--it presents a notion of God that is fundamentally contrary to my experience... the notion that with one hand, God loves us, and with the other, God may potentially zap us with the naughty stick. My experience of God is that it is all compassion, all love, all transformation of consciousness, and my experience of sin (and hell) is not so much a grave misdeed that needs to be paid for but instead a perspective that needs to be redirected. But I'm a heretic, I guess, and I don't relate to atonement theology such as this:

    No, it derives primarily from my understanding of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam fell and with him all mankind was cursed with death. So we are born in sin with a nature to sin. That coupled with an understanding of God's Holy and Perfect nature that He cannot look upon sin makes me thankful for His Graciousness in being Longsuffering toward our sin and that He made a way for us to reconcile ourselves with Him by taking Jesus atoning sacrifice for our sins to give us a righteousness that is not our own but nonetheless reconciles us fully to Him when we take Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
    On that note, I read tonight in my book club book that the greater sacrifice between the incarnation and the crucifixion was actually the incarnation. I'd like to go on about this, but maybe I'll just start another thread some other time.
    Last edited by Eileen; 10-08-2008 at 08:10 PM. Reason: can't spell after 9 pm
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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