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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    This is true. The supposed cure is the problem in the first place, because the problem is lack of humanity. Lack of recognition of our own humanity as much as other people's. Making mental health services more authoritarian and increasing gun regulation in order to stop mass shootings only works, both directly and indirectly, to increase the mass shootings that need to be stopped. If you don't believe in Christ or God or whatever, it's fine, but you need to believe in soul and life and and other life-affirming concepts. The nihilistic and solipsistic philosophy most people swear by is not just suicidal for the individual but genocidal for all of humanity, and yet everyone wonders why they're so miserable. You're miserable because you have no connection to life, and because you have no connection to life, you have no connection to truth or objectivity or anything else, so of course if life is meaningless, death becomes meaningless as well, and in that case apathy about human suffering is inevitable.
    Agreed with this for the most part, especially the bolded. Although maybe people might play a word game with nihilism as a distinction between beneficial and non-beneficial versions, as an example of beneficial nihilism being one realising that if nothing appears to objectively matter then one can work harder on creating actions towards a world that matters, as a dart in the heart of a settled perspective. This would not be my view exactly, though, but I anticipate the idea.

    There is, I think, a requirement in humans to look beyond to whatever it is that can be considered 'other' about reality. Everything that eludes or escapes our need to define the answer to purpose and existence.

    This remains (I would argue necessarily) always somewhat out of grasp, as grasp can only look at the world narrowly in terms of "what use is this?" in the most base sense. And it requires a certain kind of narrowly defined attention in order to function, which always excludes a broader consideration to whatever else might arise that is unsought in attention. There might, however, be a disagreement over what that 'other' actually is or should be.
    One of the biggest issues is with ideas of selfishness. I used to subscribe to a view of mutual selfishness, in which two or more parties involved can both gain benefit from engaging with certain actions for themselves while still helping another, but I now realise this is marred by the myriad of exceptions to such thinking that exist. Though a release of endorphins is certainly an explainable consequence of, say, pushing someone out of the way of some sudden danger and thus saving their life while now feeling good about yourself for saving someone's life, it is difficult to simply apply such a consequence as if it were the defining motivation or drive of the person saving the life.

    If we were so cynically inclined at all times (sans the influence of narrow systems of human behaviour that reward selfishness in the environment of their influence e.g: the competitive nature of business for example) then we would also pay material returns that reflect this in all areas and the fireman might well be paid as much as the CEO, if not more as the consequences of feeling good would not be enough to satisfy the conscious material selfishness this line of thinking implies. This would also imply more conscious control over our drives than can be causally allowed for and would require a solution to the nature/nurture debate.

    This is not even an exception proving the rule, unless the rule were that conditions always strongly shape drives.

    The wide range of phenomena associated with human existence continues to remain phenomenal.

    To perhaps put this paradox in a better, more pithy way than I can ever manage:

    "We must believe in free will, we have no choice." Isaac Bashevis Singer
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.
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  2. #12
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I'm with the Dalai Lama in supporting a secular moralism that unites people instead of creating institutional divides. I had to leave organized religion because there was so much fighting and hating in the churches. The secular people have been kinder. Although, I'm just as supportive of Mormons as I am Satanists if people need to feel connected to a community of believers. There are good and bad people in every group, even a lot of Satanists are vegetarians and won't cause harm unless in self-defense. I'm not that concerned with peoples ideologies as long as their behavior acts out in kindness instead of harm.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    I'm with the Dalai Lama in supporting a secular moralism that unites people instead of creating institutional divides. I had to leave organized religion because there was so much fighting and hating in the churches. The secular people have been kinder. Although, I'm just as supportive of Mormons as I am Satanists if people need to feel connected to a community of believers. There are good and bad people in every group, even a lot of Satanists are vegetarians and won't cause harm unless in self-defense. I'm not that concerned with peoples ideologies as long as their behavior acts out in kindness instead of harm.
    What do you think about applying the AD&D typology to religions?

    Have you seen the movie Silence and what do you think about it?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Psalm 10

    1 Why, Lord, do you stand far off?
    Why do you hide yourself in times of trouble?
    2 In his arrogance the wicked man hunts down the weak,
    who are caught in the schemes he devises.
    3 He boasts about the cravings of his heart;
    he blesses the greedy and reviles the Lord.
    4 In his pride the wicked man does not seek him;
    in all his thoughts there is no room for God.
    5 His ways are always prosperous;
    your laws are rejected by[b] him;
    he sneers at all his enemies.
    6 He says to himself, “Nothing will ever shake me.”
    He swears, “No one will ever do me harm.”
    7 His mouth is full of lies and threats;
    trouble and evil are under his tongue.
    8 He lies in wait near the villages;
    from ambush he murders the innocent.
    His eyes watch in secret for his victims;
    9 like a lion in cover he lies in wait.
    He lies in wait to catch the helpless;
    he catches the helpless and drags them off in his net.
    10 His victims are crushed, they collapse;
    they fall under his strength.
    11 He says to himself, “God will never notice;
    he covers his face and never sees.”
    12 Arise, Lord! Lift up your hand, O God.
    Do not forget the helpless.
    13 Why does the wicked man revile God?
    Why does he say to himself,
    “He won’t call me to account”?
    14 But you, God, see the trouble of the afflicted;
    you consider their grief and take it in hand.
    The victims commit themselves to you;
    you are the helper of the fatherless.
    15 Break the arm of the wicked man;
    call the evildoer to account for his wickedness
    that would not otherwise be found out.
    16 The Lord is King for ever and ever;
    the nations will perish from his land.
    17 You, Lord, hear the desire of the afflicted;
    you encourage them, and you listen to their cry,
    18 defending the fatherless and the oppressed,
    so that mere earthly mortals
    will never again strike terror.
    -Winter is Coming

    Once more into the fray
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know
    Live and die on this day...
    Live and die on this day...
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Galatians 5

    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    -Winter is Coming

    Once more into the fray
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know
    Live and die on this day...
    Live and die on this day...

  6. #16
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Some of you may have a kneejerk reaction to the url address. This isn't for you.

    We Don't Have Just A 'Mental Health Crisis' In America. We Have A Spiritual Crisis. - Red Pill Times



    I see this a lot on TypoC. Especially in the section which shall not be named. *cough*Politics*cough*
    This is not the first time I have heard someone say that America simply needs spirituality or some manifestation of religion and that will right all the wrongs. Of course, spiritual salvation could never come from Buddhism or Judaism of god forbid Islam or any of the many selections of spirituality available in a nation with freedom of and freedom from religion. It's always Christ. Whether you like it or not.

    I'm not commenting on the ridiculous link.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    This is not the first time I have heard someone say that America simply needs spirituality or some manifestation of religion and that will right all the wrongs. Of course, spiritual salvation could never come from Buddhism or Judaism of god forbid Islam or any of the many selections of spirituality available in a nation with freedom of and freedom from religion. It's always Christ. Whether you like it or not.

    I'm not commenting on the ridiculous link.
    Christ is the only one that offers that salvation.

    Did you read it or dismiss it? FWIW, I think that’s an unfortunate url, too. Instant turn-off for opponents while being an identity marker for adherents. Surprising because those red pill guys refer to us as “Christcucks.”

    - G. K. Chesterton -
    But the new rebel is a skeptic, and will not
    entirely trust anything. He has no loyalty; therefore he can never be
    really a revolutionist. And the fact that he doubts everything really
    gets in his way when he wants to denounce anything. For all denunciation
    implies a moral doctrine of some kind; and the modern revolutionist
    doubts not only the institution he denounces, but the doctrine by which
    he denounces it. . . . As a politician, he will cry out that war is a
    waste of life, and then, as a philosopher, that all life is waste of
    time. A Russian pessimist will denounce a policeman for killing a
    peasant, and then prove by the highest philosophical principles that the
    peasant ought to have killed himself. . . . The man of this school goes
    first to a political meeting, where he complains that savages are
    treated as if they were beasts; then he takes his hat and umbrella and
    goes on to a scientific meeting, where he proves that they practically
    are beasts. In short, the modern revolutionist, being an infinite
    skeptic, is always engaged in undermining his own mines. In his book on
    politics he attacks men for trampling on morality; in his book on ethics
    he attacks morality for trampling on men. Therefore the modern man in
    revolt has become practically useless for all purposes of revolt. By
    rebelling against everything he has lost his right to rebel against
    anything.
    -Winter is Coming

    Once more into the fray
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know
    Live and die on this day...
    Live and die on this day...
    Likes SearchingforPeace liked this post

  8. #18
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Christ is the only one that offers that salvation.

    Did you read it or dismiss it? FWIW, I think that’s an unfortunate url, too. Instant turn-off for opponents while being an identity marker for adherents. Surprising because those red pill guys refer to us as “Christcucks.”

    - G. K. Chesterton -
    I did read it, I read all the Red Pill literature posted here because it is ridiculous.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Isk Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I did read it, I read all the Red Pill literature posted here because it is ridiculous.
    What specifically did you find ridiculous in the article, besides the Christ bit?
    -Winter is Coming

    Once more into the fray
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know
    Live and die on this day...
    Live and die on this day...

  10. #20
    brush off the lolcows asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post


    Galatians 5

    19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    I'm sorry, this is off topic, but it always amuses me how Stefan has the crazy eyes.
    There is a fine line between being prejudiced against an entire demographic and disagreeing with the way the system works. -asynartetic

    A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving. -Lao Tzu

    Keep your pimp hand strong. -Bertrand Russell

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra
    I'm pretty sure the best way to spot pseudo-intellectualism is to see someone bring up the term in a conversation.

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