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Revenge

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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Personally I try to let things go if I can, revenge may be a tasty dish, but once you've consumed it, you've consumed a potential resource you "might" have a use for down the line. Burning bridges is always easier than building them; so I'd much rather those who wrong me, never have any idea that I know or knowing do not care, or caring bear no ill will. They say time heals all wounds, and perhaps that's true, but revenge can be a waste of time and resources, you never know when you might need them for some this or that later on down the line...
 

Peter Deadpan

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I've never really carried out acts of revenge. I have only taken bold steps in the name of justice, or acted out emotionally in the moment due to extreme pain. But never revenge.
 

Kas

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Revenge is the easy way (to me) because I'm rather prone to be hurt, to feel envy and anger- not very proud of it. Personally I think that revenge is rather bad (for both sides) and childish. Far better is to let it go, or look for justice without playing this game.
 
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To me revenge isn't really necessary, the best revenge is showing them they have no power over you and moving on with your life. If someone wronged me I don't want them consuming my thoughts and actions, that's a waste of precious time. Revenge can cause a lot of bitterness as well and I don't want that. It's like you have a hole deep inside that won't be filled, you will never be satisfied. Revenge won't change whatever happened, it won't bring closure. I think that revenge is different to protecting or defending loved ones. Making sure that you & loved ones are safe is fine, but getting back at others doesn't do anything for me, I'd rather turn the other cheek.
 

Forever_Jung

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Whose world?

Well the "as if" was a bit of a qualifier, meant to communicate: "It to felt to ME that the world was set right, but of course I realize ultimately it was a trivial and self-centered thing and not related to any sort of "world" at large." I was mocking myself a little.

To me revenge isn't really necessary, the best revenge is showing them they have no power over you and moving on with your life. If someone wronged me I don't want them consuming my thoughts and actions, that's a waste of precious time. Revenge can cause a lot of bitterness as well and I don't want that. It's like you have a hole deep inside that won't be filled, you will never be satisfied. Revenge won't change whatever happened, it won't bring closure. I think that revenge is different to protecting or defending loved ones. Making sure that you & loved ones are safe is fine, but getting back at others doesn't do anything for me, I'd rather turn the other cheek.

I don't know. I remember how powerless someone made me feel for years, and taking them down was a real act of emancipation for me. I kept trying to turn the other cheek and that was the problem (I guess it was partly my fault for not having stronger boundaries as a teen, but still). The revenge actually emotionally closed the door on a period of helplessness in my life, through a dramatic act of defiance.

Did it completely heal me and make me let go of everything? No. But it kept me from back-sliding or even getting pulled back into the life I had left, because I had torched the bridge and filled the river with toxic waste.

Revenge is the easy way (to me) because I'm rather prone to be hurt, to feel envy and anger- not very proud of it. Personally I think that revenge is rather bad (for both sides) and childish. Far better is to let it go, or look for justice without playing this game.

60% of me agrees with you, but sometimes you just keep getting pushed haha It's hard to resist that savage part of your brain.

I've never really carried out acts of revenge. I have only taken bold steps in the name of justice, or acted out emotionally in the moment due to extreme pain. But never revenge.

See, I am skeptical of my own ability to determine what is justice, so I usually just call it revenge. Certainly I have done things are justifiable, that would help protect others, and/or the other person had-it-coming, but "justice" can be tricky. I think it could be easy to fall into the trap of thinking of yourself as some sort of avenging angel.

Personally I try to let things go if I can, revenge may be a tasty dish, but once you've consumed it, you've consumed a potential resource you "might" have a use for down the line. Burning bridges is always easier than building them; so I'd much rather those who wrong me, never have any idea that I know or knowing do not care, or caring bear no ill will. They say time heals all wounds, and perhaps that's true, but revenge can be a waste of time and resources, you never know when you might need them for some this or that later on down the line...

Agreed, I only do it if:

A.) I can basically erase this person from my life almost consequence free
B.) They don't even know I was responsible

B is especially key. Make it look like it was either random misfortune or the work of someone else, or even act THROUGH someone else, and make them think it was their idea.
 
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I don't know. I remember how powerless someone made me feel for years, and taking them down was a real act of emancipation for me. I kept trying to turn the other cheek and that was the problem (I guess it was partly my fault for not having stronger boundaries as a teen, but still). The revenge actually emotionally closed the door on a period of helplessness in my life, through a dramatic act of defiance.

Did it completely heal me and make me let go of everything? No. But it kept me from back-sliding or even getting pulled back into the life I had left, because I had torched the bridge and filled the river with toxic waste.

Hmmm.. perhaps what you did is stand up for yourself and cutting someone toxic completely from your life, or at least that's what it sounds like you're describing. Which is absolutely okay. I see revenge as impulsively acting out based on feelings of anger/resentment, getting even if you will. Getting even supports the belief that two wrongs make a right, but it doesn't. It only exacerbates a problem, and risks making an already bad situation worse.

It's like saying, "you killed my wife, so I'm coming after yours." Killing his innocent wife to make him feel what you did won't bring yours back, and definitely doesn't do good for your own morality. You haven't restored anything within yourself, you've only taken from someone else, stooped to that person's level. And that's why revenge often leaves people in a never-ending cycle, only taking but not getting anything back.

All that said, I completely understand the desire for vengeance and it's not an unnatural desire, literally everyone feels it. It's tempting to give someone what they deserve, and sometimes we can even find a way to justify that. I think the best way to describe revenge isn't bitter or sweet, it's bittersweet. There will be a glimmer of satisfaction when justice seems to have been served. But I believe there's healthier ways to empower yourself & overcome what happens to you instead of going after someone for payback.
 

Coriolis

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I am more interested in recompense or amends than revenge. In other words, if you did something bad to me or something that hurt or made things difficult for me, fix it. Take responsibility, and do what you can to make things right. Then we both move on.
 

Lark

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I am more interested in recompense or amends than revenge. In other words, if you did something bad to me or something that hurt or made things difficult for me, fix it. Take responsibility, and do what you can to make things right. Then we both move on.

I misread or misunderstood this highlighted bit but it provoked an interesting thought, what if we spent as much time actively seeking to return favours or be satisfied that one good turn deserves another?
 

Typh0n

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Well, this is circumstantial.

The problem with general principles like "an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind" is that sometimes, it is letting people push you around that makes everyone go blind. Because if there is no punishment, no consequences to harming others, you can be sure some people will take advantage of that. Sometimes seeking revenge on others can be counter-constructive, too though, especially if you are no longer in danger. It depends on the person who has harmed you, how they have done it, and what is reasonable as a retribution.

To me revenge isn't really necessary, the best revenge is showing them they have no power over you and moving on with your life. If someone wronged me I don't want them consuming my thoughts and actions, that's a waste of precious time. Revenge can cause a lot of bitterness as well and I don't want that. It's like you have a hole deep inside that won't be filled, you will never be satisfied. Revenge won't change whatever happened, it won't bring closure. I think that revenge is different to protecting or defending loved ones. Making sure that you & loved ones are safe is fine, but getting back at others doesn't do anything for me, I'd rather turn the other cheek.

I would say that its the act that warrants revenge that causes bitterness, not revenge that causes bitterness.

How do you, in practice, distinguish between defending yourself and your loved ones, and revenge? Thats the point I'm raising. How much "punishement" or damage, caused to the offending party is enough to cause them to stop or to take their business somewhere else? I guess what I'm trying to say is that noone (or at least very few people) want to fight, even people who are criminals. Fighting is costly, and a loss for everyone. Revenge, if an act of self-defense wasn't possible at the time of the offending act, can be used a form of dissuation so as to discourage further offending actions. If someone commits violent actions (assault, murder, rape) and is never punished, either by law or by the people they commit violence against and noone fights them, or causes them any damages, they will keep doing it. Furthermore, it encourages others to do the same: whats the big deal about assaulting people on the street and taking their wallets if you can get away with it. Some people have a conscience, but...

I guess the question I'm raising is : can revenge be pragmatic? Can it be dissuasive?
 
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Siúil a Rúin

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I’m mostly gone now, but this topic is especially important to me because it goes to the foundation of all of human morality and suffering.

Firstly, I want to say that feelings of remorse and guilt (when healthy and realistic) are a precious and beautiful gift, so I’m not one to encourage dismissal of these. Honest guilt is hope that we can be better than we were. When I was in fourth grade I participated in ostracizing a girl in my class, and while I can blame it on the current church fight among adults, having an unstable childhood environment, etc., that isn’t nearly as important as my ability to feel guilt at the time. My apology to the girl was limited in terms of recompense, but it changed me so that in high school I become the person my guilt promised I could be. I was able to be kind to the misfits and ostracized kids.

Secondly I will say without specifics that I was in a relationship for six years that left me violated physically, psychologically, financially, and emotionally. I can understand that the acting out of revenge could plausibly help a person let go, but I didn’t do it. Perhaps in part because I was still beholden to feelings of pity for him that initially enabled the abuse (both projected from my own piteous state and some that belonged to him). What I did do in that relationship was tell him the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I stand behind everything I said to him, and I managed to say everything I thought he needed to hear. That has given me tremendous relief and reclaiming of myself. I don’t care so much now how this sounds, but I think losing me was its own punishment because I did love him absolutely and was kind to him, but he couldn’t reciprocate and violated that love deeply. Further revenge, acts of intentional harm, only lessens the cost of that loss.

Thirdly, I think it is important to factor in the limitation of human perception. I say this with caution because I know about victims being gaslighted regarding their perceptions, and I have been as well. Still, though there is a way to calculate the cost of being wrong in perception. It is also true that many abusers genuinely, honestly believe their victims are evil and harming them. I’ve known innocent people with brain damage actually hear someone using aggressive and cursing words when it never happened in reality. If we all enact revenge aggressively choosing to inflict harm, then we get exactly the result we see humanity experiencing. It all FEELS justified, no matter how cruel, sadistic, and horrendous. We have to become something profoundly different from the harm that violated us.

Fourthly, while I know the above leans in the direction of someone who does not exact justice entirely in a concrete way, I am a person who strives for perfect justice in the world. I care about directing the price towards the individual who caused harm with zero collateral damage. The moment I allow collateral damage or any harm to an innocent person, or greater punishment for lesser violations, then I am no better and deserve no better.
 

Tilt

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I have gotten revenge on people and they didn't even see it coming. It's all about perception. The latest revenge is making myself look good in comparison to someone I truly dislike so the person in question just looks more and more ridiculous and has lost much respect in the eyes of the person she's trying to get it from. She did it to herself though.
To add, I think I do it as a means to protect people usually. It's more in the way of "foiling plans" or guiding other people to understand the situation/ulterior motives, rather than TRUE harm.
 
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[MENTION=17729]Typh0n[/MENTION] Those are very good points, I totally see what you're saying. I think the difference between self defense and revenge is people seek out someone with revenge, and self defense is just that, defending yourself when trouble comes your way. If someone comes after you, instead of going after them to do them harm (which would likely get you in legal trouble), you should work on defensive measures and even ask for protection from the authorities. It is true that some people might mistake turning the other cheek as weakness and take advantage of that, but in situations like these I think you should choose defense over offense. Because you're right measures should be taken to prevent people from causing any more harm to someone, but not by looking for a fight. That could put you and loved ones in even more danger. To me revenge makes a person hold onto things longer than they should, and it's just fighting fire with fire, someone will get burned. Self defense on the other hand, is a preventative measure. So personally, I dont think revenge can ever be pragmatic, but self defense can be.
 

magpie

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I don't have a particular moral stance on the concept of revenge in general. I will say though that a desire for revenge means you are still firmly in the grasp of the person or people you feel wronged you. It's letting their actions influence your behavior. A person who seeks revenge is chained and led by the one they seek revenge against. The person who doesn't is free.
 

ceecee

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Well, this is circumstantial.

The problem with general principles like "an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind" is that sometimes, it is letting people push you around that makes everyone go blind. Because if there is no punishment, no consequences to harming others, you can be sure some people will take advantage of that. Sometimes seeking revenge on others can be counter-constructive, too though, especially if you are no longer in danger. It depends on the person who has harmed you, how they have done it, and what is reasonable as a retribution.



I would say that its the act that warrants revenge that causes bitterness, not revenge that causes bitterness.

How do you, in practice, distinguish between defending yourself and your loved ones, and revenge? Thats the point I'm raising. How much "punishement" or damage, caused to the offending party is enough to cause them to stop or to take their business somewhere else? I guess what I'm trying to say is that noone (or at least very few people) want to fight, even people who are criminals. Fighting is costly, and a loss for everyone. Revenge, if an act of self-defense wasn't possible at the time of the offending act, can be used a form of dissuation so as to discourage further offending actions. If someone commits violent actions (assault, murder, rape) and is never punished, either by law or by the people they commit violence against and noone fights them, or causes them any damages, they will keep doing it. Furthermore, it encourages others to do the same: whats the big deal about assaulting people on the street and taking their wallets if you can get away with it. Some people have a conscience, but...

I guess the question I'm raising is : can revenge be pragmatic? Can it be dissuasive?

I think it can be pragmatic. I don't know about dissuasive. And I don't believe in an eye for an eye thing - it's a pointless cycle. In my own situation, I simply moved on with my life, took care of my children and that was it. When my ex-husband couldn't borrow another dime from anyone and was running from creditors - I bought his house when it was auctioned. Rehabbed it and sold it for a nice profit. He was apoplectic. And then he had a heart attack. Karma motherfucker.
 

tinker683

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As tantalizing as the act might appear in my head, the whole thing just leaves me feeling hollow.

As such, I don't engage in revenge...I just leave the other party behind and move forward
 

highlander

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I can hardly remember a time when I took revenge. Maybe once in college I put dirty dishes inside someone's door several times.
 

Lark

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I can hardly remember a time when I took revenge. Maybe once in college I put dirty dishes inside someone's door several times.

There was that one time when you cut the heads of all your enemies and become some sort of ascended master or over mind before they encased the world in a kind of atmospheric shield or dyson sphere or something like that, McCloud ;):newwink:
 
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There was that one time when you cut the heads of all your enemies and become some sort of ascended master or over mind before they encased the world in a kind of atmospheric shield or dyson sphere or something like that, McCloud ;):newwink:

It’s MacLeod. Connor MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod! :doh:
 
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