Why do we live?

[burningranger]

Almost four thousand million years ago DNA learnt to replicate, and the rest is the history of natural selection.

We have a vast, almost unimaginable, history behind us, it is beyond extraordinary.

We have yet to learn how DNA learnt to replicate, I suspect though it is the result of laws of nature. If this is true, we can expect that life exists on the hundreds and hundreds of billions of other planets in the universe.

Unfortunately this is all lost on narcissists who only focus on themselves, and ask the question To be or not to be?. They are of course as mad as Hamlet.

Interesting prespective. But how does that bigger picture make someone selfish (if I understand correctly) to not to be here? To whom should we pledge allegiance or loyalty as an individual?

 

[Bulletproof_Bastard]

I will probably try to convince and explain to that person how suicide isn't the solution to his problem. In fact, it will be worse if he died due to his problems as it'll make him a permanent loser. So even if he really wants to die, he should solve his problems first.

I'll probably tell him something like "if you can't live meaningfully, at least you can die meaningfully! I can see you're having a lot of problems in your life. But the fact that you can survive through it all so far is already one great achievement. Congratulations! You've been a champion! So don't ruin your victory with taking your own life like this. If it's so painful, you can scream at me until my ears bleed. Take it as a compliment from me for your victory"

 

[Mole]

Interesting prespective. But how does that bigger picture make someone selfish (if I understand correctly) to not to be here? To whom should we pledge allegiance or loyalty as an individual?

The individual is a recent result of literacy, yes, it is print that has given us the literate individual, but as I etext and as you eread, we are being recreated as part of an electric tribe, called Typology Central, in the global village.

So pledging allegiance or loyalty as an individual is passé, rather we are in real time emotional contact with everyone across the world in the global village.

America is based on universal literacy and find it hard or impossible to adjust to being members of electronic tribes in the global village. So you are still worrying who to pledge loyalty or allegiance to as an independent individual. But the world has moved on, leaving you floundering in the backwash. Hey, here we are up here!

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

...either life is worth living or it is not.

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION]

That's what it boils down to. It's one thing to answer that question; it's another to live with conviction about the answer, if yes. We know the fate of those who have conviction and answer no.


When you mentioned the trope of "The one thing that saved my life." I take it as whatever that moment, word, gesture is, that helped solidify answering the above existential question. It's just so ineffible to describe all those influences in a manner that doesn't come across as trite.

 

[tinker683]

As someone who was once very suicidal and did two stints in a mental hospital because of it...

I would say the first thing I'd do is try to bring up everything with them that they love, from interests and food to memories and experiences that they cherish. One of the most damaging things about long term major depression is how much it distorts your perception of reality and putting a crack in that is REALLY hard.

Then I would follow up with asking them something like, "Look, I know I can't ultimately stop you from doing what you want to do but could you help me do [x] real quick? It will only take 5 minutes..."

Then 5 minutes later,

"Hey, listen, I've got [xyz] thing I could use your help/perspective on. Could you help me out with that?"

I read an article the other day about how one of the most beneficial things anyone could do for someone who is about to kill themselves or try is to distract for a while as this person explained that in that moment when a person is about to do it, they're having a crisis of belief where they don't think anything matters right at that exact moment in time that this is the only way to handle or deal with this. But distracting them, pulling them away from that proverbial ledge, they can gain a moment of lucidity and back down. Looking back on my own experiences with the feelings I had back then, I can see a lot of truth to that.

 

[tinker683]

Also....

Are you OK burningranger?

 

[Totenkindly]

I think some times I keep on living simply because I want to see what happens next.

(And as a corollary -- where there is life, there is hope. Once you are dead, you're dead, and that IS final. But while you are alive, there's a possibility that things can change and improve. I would hate to regret dying and not be able to take it back... although I guess I would no longer be able to regret anything.)

I also think about the people I care about.... how I wouldn't be able to see them anymore.
And the things I actually like in this life... how I wouldn't be able to do them anymore.

 

[burningranger]

Thanks tinker. I'm okay I guess yeah. I never really contemplated suicide but I do often wonder, specially lately why I'm alive and have always a pretty grimm life for the most part. Your post was perfect though...that's the kind of response I was looking for....because I feel it IS all about the person lacking prespective and CONTRAST in the moment...that life HAS good things. But when you spent most of your live depressed and built an identity out of painful memories and experiences (or lack of good memories and experiences) it can be very hard to see what the point is.

THat's also another reason why people with different backgrounds might not be able to appreciate or empathize fully with someone in that position, because they have the positive experiences to validate their belief that life CAN be worthwhile.

Distraction also seems very benefitial. I think because our minds are so obsessed with suffering...it takes an external jolt or a gentle forcing to place our attention on something else long enough to break the negative cycle.

But it's not only that...it's also...to what end? What is the purpose of one's life? I think about that a lot...I mean whether it's subconscious or conscious one must have a reason to be here i figure.

 

[Poki]

Because our parents decided to have sex

I am not the best. Someone once told me they thoight about swerving under an 18 wheeler and my first thing i said was...that would suck if you lived after that.

 

[1487610420]

 

[Mole]

But it's not only that...it's also...to what end? What is the purpose of one's life? I think about that a lot...I mean whether it's subconscious or conscious one must have a reason to be here i figure.

We are meaning creating animals. Other animals operate mainly from instinct, but we operate mainly from meaning.

Meaning is extraordinarily powerful, as meaning can transcend any suffering. No other animal commits suicide, yet when we lose meaning, when our life becomes meaningless, we can be tempted by suicide.

We can survive the very worst conditions, as long as we are able to ascribe meaning, but for a meaning creating animal, the loss of meaning is tantamount to the loss of life.

Fortunately we create meaning below the level of consciousness and also at the cultural level, so meaning is like a freshly flowing stream - perennial, always with us.

 

[Mole]

Because our parents decided to have sex

Very few have sex in order to have children. Of course children are an outcome of sex, but when we have sex, our desire is not for children but for pleasure.

Of course along with the pleasure come other desires, such as the desire for status, the desire to impress our peers, the desire to act out of our psychopathology, the desire to please our parents, the desire for money and riches, and of course our hidden desires for our parents, and indeed even the desire to carry out the demands of our religion, and the desire to be good. But all are posited on the overwhelming sexual desire for pleasure.

 

[tinker683]

Thanks tinker. I'm okay I guess yeah. I never really contemplated suicide but I do often wonder, specially lately why I'm alive and have always a pretty grimm life for the most part.

Glad to hear it! Usually whenver I hear someone do the whole rhetorical, "How would you convince someone not to kill themselves" my Fe gets oversensitive and I start to wonder if they're really asking for themselves

Your post was perfect though...that's the kind of response I was looking for....because I feel it IS all about the person lacking prespective and CONTRAST in the moment...that life HAS good things. But when you spent most of your live depressed and built an identity out of painful memories and experiences (or lack of good memories and experiences) it can be very hard to see what the point is.

THat's also another reason why people with different backgrounds might not be able to appreciate or empathize fully with someone in that position, because they have the positive experiences to validate their belief that life CAN be worthwhile.

Distraction also seems very benefitial. I think because our minds are so obsessed with suffering...it takes an external jolt or a gentle forcing to place our attention on something else long enough to break the negative cycle.

I agree wholeheartedly

But it's not only that...it's also...to what end? What is the purpose of one's life? I think about that a lot...I mean whether it's subconscious or conscious one must have a reason to be here i figure.

That I don't know. I know what *I* live for, as far as some bigger existential purpose? Humans have been arguing that since we learned how to write (and probably before that too) so your guess is as good as mine