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Nice isn't kind

StrawberryBoots

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I believe what's real and what's phony depends on the condition of one's soul. Kindness is a fruit of the Spirit, which comes from God and deferring to his Spirit.

In Galatians 5:22, the Greek word translates kindness as the divine kindness out of which God acts toward humankind. It is what the Old Testament means when it says "God is good."

Therefore, kindness is doing good to others as God has done to us. The Bible talks about what "good" actually is. My understanding is that good can only come from the Holy Spirit working through us. Anything less has selfish intent or is self-righteous in nature.

As far as the worldly denotation and connotation of the words "nice" and "kind.," I've always thought they were synonyms. As far as connotation, to each his on.

I don't disagree with you entirely.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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I would observe that this has never been either/or.

The stifling appearance of surface niceness can link into genuine kindness. As authenticity of emotion is not an easily measured affair in the phenomenology of experience.

The harsh division in this framing tells us more about a certain kind of mindset than about nice & kind.

Herrschaft und Knechtschaft.
 

á´…eparted

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I see posts were moved, so I'll rephrase my question. Oh @DiscoBiscuit, where art thou? What does this thread mean? Are you just bouncing off ideas? What inspired this thread that's so deep, it eludes the minds of TC's most brilliant thinkers and leaves them in a state of delirium?

Most aren't speaking because it's a (poorly) veiled attempt at saying the fact he goes out of his way to unsettle and piss people off - largely for sadistic personal satisfaction - is actually a good thing and the right thing to do. It's not, most know this, and it's a waste of time to discuss it, much less with him. Had someone else other than him made a thread like this it would have gotten more traction and probably be an interesting discussion to some extent. Unfortunately, topics like this tend to attract the wrong kind of people and most avoid it because of it.
 

Tater

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As far as I'm concerned, the OP is a stand-up person.

Do these sound like the words of a stand-up person?

Ill just wait for the SCOTUS holding, and engage in more schadenfreude.
Not with all the Schadenfreude I've been harvesting. I'll surely be able to make it through the winter with all this.
Schadenfreude
I stick around to enjoy the schadenfreude.
The schadenfreude I have talked so long about is here.
The schadenfreude is going to be strong.

scha·den·freu·de
ˈSHädənˌfroidə/Submit
noun
pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Most aren't speaking because it's a (poorly) veiled attempt at saying the fact he goes out of his way to unsettle and piss people off - largely for sadistic personal satisfaction - is actually a good thing and the right thing to do. It's not, most know this, and it's a waste of time to discuss it, much less with him. Had someone else other than him made a thread like this it would have gotten more traction and probably be an interesting discussion to some extent. Unfortunately, topics like this tend to attract the wrong kind of people and most avoid it because of it.
Reminds me of a thread several years ago on whether members ever feel intimidated about participating in threads, made by one of the main culprits causing such intimidation.
 

Cellmold

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Hmm, I think it's time to find the original poster.

Oh I wasn't picking on [MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION].

I think if anything there is a tale of either/or that is very hard to escape in the landscape of modern thinking and, from time to time, we're all victim to it.
 

Lark

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Oh I wasn't picking on [MENTION=6724]DiscoBiscuit[/MENTION].

I think if anything there is a tale of either/or that is very hard to escape in the landscape of modern thinking and, from time to time, we're all victim to it.

Do you mean false dichotomies?
 

Lord Lavender

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They have similarish definitions but they are slightly different. To me kind is more actively getting out there and doing acts of good in a way while nice is more passive as nice just means you are not being rude or offensive but not necessarily good as such. Its a bit like the difference between rude and evil I suppose. Rude just means passively negative while evil means actively seeking malice.
 

burningranger

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It's all a matter of intent. Two different intentions. Sometimes there is overlap.
 

á´…eparted

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Man, I feel like I'm back in high-school where I have two options: follow the dramatic popular crowd, or relax in the corner of the library and focus on my studies. As much as I hate studying, I hate drama more, so I choose the library. Call me a nerd. Call me stuck up. I've heard it all.

I don't have a problem with y'all individually, but as a group, ya'll act crazy!

I'm trying to set a boundary here.

If you appear to be in agreement or endorse someone or an idea/philosophy I (or others) have a problem with, then we'll likely have a problem with you as well. Asking people to play nice doesn't do a darn thing. Incidentally, we are.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Man, I feel like I'm back in high-school where I have two options: follow the dramatic popular crowd, or relax in the corner of the library and focus on my studies. As much as I hate studying, I hate drama more, so I choose the library. Call me a nerd. Call me stuck up. I've heard it all.

I don't have a problem with y'all individually, but as a group, ya'll act crazy!

I'm trying to set a boundary here.
The only boundary you can set is the one you place on your own actions. If you thought those were your only two options, you were artificially limiting yourself in high school, as you would also be here. Do not equate being nice - or kind - with agreement. It is quite possible to disagree while being both, as many of our members routinely demonstrate.

Of course if you feel you are being insulted or harassed, do report it. That sort of behavior is against the rules here.
 

á´…eparted

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I recognize people have their own tastes and preferences. I don't feel like I need to agree with them to be friends. Come as you are, but leave your drama at the door. I definitely understand there are philosophies that are offensive... Is that what you mean?

Do you really want to be friends with a de-facto nazi apologist?
 

á´…eparted

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That made me smile. I'm playing with you. I'm not a nazi, neo nazi, or any kind of nazi. I also can't tell you for sure if I'd be friends with someone like that. I've never been friends with someone like that; at least, not that I know of. If you knew my personality type, you'd understand why I can't say for sure. I'm not a planner. I'll root for the underdog. I'll play the devil's advocate. I don't do those things to intentionally hurt anyone. Maybe, I can fix them. Would that be okay?

Ah, so you think you're being cute? I do not appreciate being "played with", nor does anyone else. It will serve you well to not make this mistake again you'll find yourself in choppy waters that won't be nearly as fun as you think your little games are.

If you root for the underdog for the sake of the underdog for the sake of them being the underdog, and you play devils advocate and aren't clear on it, then you lack an appropriate moral compass and I have no time for you. "Good intentions" don't absolve one of guilt. You'll learn that soon enough.
 

Cellmold

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Do you mean false dichotomies?

To an extent, yes, but that would also be a simplification.

I mentioned Hegel's idea of the Master-Slave dialectic (Herrschaft und Knechtschaft.) because I think it fits.

The passage describes, in narrative form, the development of self-consciousness as such in an encounter between what are thereby (i.e., emerging only from this encounter) two distinct, self-conscious beings; the essence of the dialectic is the movement or motion of recognizing, in which the two self-consciousnesses are constituted each in being recognized as self-conscious by the other. This movement, inexorably taken to its extreme, takes the form of a "struggle to the death" in which one masters the other, only to find that such lordship makes the very recognition he had sought impossible, since the bondsman, in this state, is not free to offer it.

There's a problem of trying to train attention on something, only to find that by doing so it turns out you (as perceiver) change what you are apprehending.

In the case of kindness/niceness, it is true that there are degrees of niceness that are superficial and reliant on socially approved 'forms' of interaction. Collective cliche's and assumptions. At the same time niceness may also be a protective habit for the idea of 'keeping the peace' which often comes across as a kind of lie, but it isn't necessarily so. Especially since emotion is not linear.

And kindness isn't always nice if it is viewed as the kindness that someone is blind to. I.e: that a person may be self-destructive or stuck in an unhelpful mindset (there are innumerable contexts for this) and that the kindness looks like cruelty from the perspective of the recipient but it may be recognised as, once again, a degree of kindness.

So Disco is kind of right & "kind of" is an important distinction to make, in that it is vague enough to almost reject distinctness.

The either/or issue is one that goes very far back throughout history, but I don't want to write a huge essay. So I'll try to be brief and describe it as being part of a modern agony towards uncertainty; people demand answers and actionable choices with set outcomes & unfortunately this gives rise to Scientism over Science and a dogmatic approach to the allusions of life that are half seen and never fully graspable.

This could be reduced to a kind of immature "what-if-ness" of mindset that tries to play up subjectivity to the point of solipsism, but that would be a gross reductionism that falls victim, once again, to the concept of Herrschaft und Knechtschaft.

Language is also a part of the issue as it tends towards definition and settlement of terms (although a clever poet might move language towards the deliberate vagueness of metaphor) but it often remains insufficient to communicate an idea of what is 'Other' in our phenomenological experiences.

Trying to make literal the eternally ineffable is why we have ideas like typology and perhaps even divinity.

Many modern systems run on being certain, which is not in itself something that should be shunned or feared, but the appropriation of certain systems to uncertain existences and phenomena results in a powerful swing towards either/or thinking.

As either/or becomes more relied upon, more stark, metaphor and paradox retreat...leaving everything looking like a contradiction. And where there is only contradiction, there is only conflict.
 

Norrsken

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Nice is attractive, in looks and in behaviors. Kindness is unseen but can be felt. So yes, it's best to be kind rather than just nice.
.. And I see this thread blew up, okay, bye now.
 

Yuurei

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Been saying this for years.

It's why women don't like "Nice guys". They reek of insincerity.
 
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