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  1. #61
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    No.

    I think death is a natural boundary of the universe.
    Thus, if I'm to understand life and the "way of things," I need to be subject to it.
    If I shrugged it off, my understanding of the world would lessen.

    "Truth at all costs," correct?
    Even if those costs include inconvenience, suffering, and/or death.
    I understend the part about the truth but I don't understand the "inconvenience, suffering, and/or death" part. What makes you think that the truth you are looking for could be in that direction?

  2. #62
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oay serious question, what's the whole problem with death?

    I keep seeing people claiming that a person cannot understand what happens at death and there's an intrinsic need for an afterlife for people's psychological wellbeing.. why?

    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.

    What's the problem with that?
    Lol, that's what I thought. It's not as if your ego survives to miss life. I think the only time death sucks is when someone else dies.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  3. #63
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I understend the part about the truth but I don't understand the "inconvenience, suffering, and/or death" part. What makes you think that the truth you are looking for could be in that direction?
    Because such things seem inseparable from the act of living? Therefore to understand life, you need to understand those things as well and take their presence or absence into account.

    Also, truth is usually not convenient, or painless.
    Sometimes what we [think we] want does not align with what is True.
    Thus Truth demands a cost.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #64
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Because such things seem inseparable from the act of living? Therefore to understand life, you need to understand those things as well and take their presence or absence into account.

    Also, truth is usually not convenient, or painless.
    Sometimes what we [think we] want does not align with what is True.
    Thus Truth demands a cost.
    I think that your first version of reply was better.

    Also I think that truth is quite painless and harmless the only real question is what will you do with it.

    Since many people insist on common sense or conventional methods they end up where they want to be or where they don't want to be.
    What doesn't mean that they even come close to the things they are really after.

  5. #65
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I think that your first version of reply was better.
    Thanks, I'm glad that one of my answers met with your approval.

    Also I think that truth is quite painless and harmless the only real question is what will you do with it.
    Continue.

    Since many people insist on common sense or conventional methods they end up where they want to be or where they don't want to be.
    What doesn't mean that they even come close to the things they are really after.
    What version of "truth" are you discussing right now -- utilitarian or personal?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #66
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    As very expressed INTJ I will say that am discussing the absolute truth.

    I think that person can't understand truth if he/she is using a lot of emotions about it.

    I am not saying this because I am some anti F fascist. I am saying this because it looks to me that people who are using emotional/spiritual way toward the problem don't make any progress in their ideas after a certain point.

    It looks that they are closed in one cyrcle which is the result of the fact that feelings are not complex(even if many people think they are).

    What means that you all the time work with puzzle that has only few pieces and the entire space to play with them is quite narrow.
    People could like this approach but I am not sure that this way has any real result to show.

    I am quite sure that many people on this forum will not agree with me but this is the way I am thinking.

  7. #67
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Lol, that's what I thought. It's not as if your ego survives to miss life. I think the only time death sucks is when someone else dies.
    Another ENFJ parallel... I'm really building them these days.

    Where you been Brendan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    When I see something that strikes me as particularly beautiful I think how much I don't want to let go of all the beauty the earth has to offer.
    My point is parallel to yours. Why make a big deal about death when there's so much to appreciate and think about with whatever remaining time you have. It's just a bit daft in my opinion. It WILL happen. You CAN'T control or do anything about it so why run around thinking about it, theorising... though I admit that with this thread I may be treading that very path right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    As very expressed INTJ I will say that am discussing the absolute truth.

    I think that person can't understand truth if he/she is using a lot of emotions about it.

    I am not saying this because I am some anti F fascist. I am saying this because it looks to me that people who are using emotional/spiritual way toward the problem don't make any progress in their ideas after a certain point.

    It looks that they are closed in one cyrcle which is the result of the fact that feelings are not complex(even if many people think they are).

    What means that you all the time work with puzzle that has only few pieces and the entire space to play with them is quite narrow.
    People could like this approach but I am not sure that this way has any real result to show.

    I am quite sure that many people on this forum will not agree with me but this is the way I am thinking.
    Precisely. If there's no principle to hang it all upon then it doesn't fit comfortably. That's kinda my problem with a lot of the theories. It just doesn't hang straight on my wall. Of course it could be that my wall in on the wonk, which is why I check every once in a while.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #68
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    My point is parallel to yours. Why make a big deal about death when there's so much to appreciate and think about with whatever remaining time you have. It's just a bit daft in my opinion. It WILL happen. You CAN'T control or do anything about it so why run around thinking about it, theorising... though I admit that with this thread I may be treading that very path right now.
    If you were a condemned man eating a last meal, would you be able to fully concentrate on the sensual pleasures of the meal before you? After all, there's (lets assume) nothing you can do to change the inevitable, so why bother yourself with such negativity? The awareness of (lets assume) inevitable oblivion similarly inhibits (to an initially much lesser but ever closer degree) attempts to fully appreciate any of the things you alluded to, particularly time-consuming diversions.

  9. #69
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    If you were a condemned man eating a last meal, would you be able to fully concentrate on the sensual pleasures of the meal before you? After all, there's (lets assume) nothing you can do to change the inevitable, so why bother yourself with such negativity? The awareness of (lets assume) inevitable oblivion similarly inhibits (to an initially much lesser but ever closer degree) attempts to fully appreciate any of the things you alluded to, particularly time-consuming diversions.
    It's a principle, not a rule. Something to aim for not something to admonish yourself continually for not attaining.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #70
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oay serious question, what's the whole problem with death?

    I keep seeing people claiming that a person cannot understand what happens at death and there's an intrinsic need for an afterlife for people's psychological wellbeing.. why?

    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.

    What's the problem with that?
    Fear.

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