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  1. #31

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    I think people see their lives as stories, and they want their story to have a happy ending. Death kind of puts a damper on that. Very rarely does someone die having lived a full enough life that they have accomplished enough to satisfy them, have loved and been loved enough to feel secure, and do not have any unfinished business. Death ends their story before they feel it's finished. It's not the prospect of what happens at death that makes people uneasy or afraid; it's the prospect of losing all they have here.
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  2. #32
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I think that a lot of the objection has to do with the fact that each person is something alive something all to themselves- unique in a way. nobody wants to recognize the fact that something so "special" as a person can cease to exist forever.

    I guess that I've always beleived that the thing that's supposed to be a soul is the little quirks that make us different from others- the memories and knowlege that we've collected over the course of living. I don't beleive in God in a conventional christian way like I was raised to beleive, but I can't let go of the beleif that there's something about a person that makes each person special in some sort of way. I guess this beleif translates over into a beleif into some sort of afterlife (actually, I kinna beleive in reincarnation...) and I hate to see something unique die. I also hate to see a work of art destroyed, in the same principle.

    The beleif in an afterlife is, to me, a beleif in humanity, or individuality. I prefer to beleive that death isn't just it because I don't like to see something special disappear. I guess I beleive in some sort of soul even if I'm not religious. It's in a way a refusal to let go, but in another way, it's a recognition of life in general- life being what makes us what we are.
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #33
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I keep seeing people claiming that a person cannot understand what happens at death and there's an intrinsic need for an afterlife for people's psychological wellbeing.. why?
    Don't know, connected with the need for religon in my opinion. People want life to have a purpose, and for humans to be "above" just our existance here, and to have some life after our death. Personally, it makes no sense to me.

    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.
    My thinking as well. Hence why my strategy is to live life in whatever way makes me happy.

    What's the problem with that?
    Nothing, it's just....more accepting of the most likely reality than most people. (Personal opinion of course..)
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think people see their lives as stories, and they want their story to have a happy ending. Death kind of puts a damper on that. Very rarely does someone die having lived a full enough life that they have accomplished enough to satisfy them, have loved and been loved enough to feel secure, and do not have any unfinished business. Death ends their story before they feel it's finished. It's not the prospect of what happens at death that makes people uneasy or afraid; it's the prospect of losing all they have here.
    I agree with your point to some extent. We all want the happy ending indeed and we sure don't want to lose a thing we own, but we usually don't really know when we'll die so we don't feel like we've been cut short, others do for us. We're dead, we didn't see anything...Except in some cases where your idea applies perfectly (terminally ill, death sentences)
    Imagine what life would be like if we possessed our birth and death certificate "from birth"? We would live in a hectic constant rush to "finish" things, I think we'd go crazy. But then again, would we even have the same opinion on death if it was given to us from birth? Would our attitude towards limits in general change?
    Some view death as a way of freeing themselves from pain, no matter what there is after death.(ex: a christian commiting suicide would go to hell, boy wouldn't that suck? and what about someone who believes in reincarnation how would they see it?Just a cycle?)
    People who commit suicide are selfish in our eyes, we are in theirs because we are preventing them from their "ultimate relief" to their pain if you will.(I mean the "natural" thing to do is try and live when you go backwards you have a mental problem in my opinion...>.> Are there other living beings that purposely go to their deaths from their own choice(excluding dying because you mated)? but then again, just my opinion)Of course they are not thinking about us when they are killing themselves since we suffer the loss, they're dead.
    I also completely understand you whatever, surely no one wants to believe that there is a complete end somewhere. As a matter of fact, this belief is widespread I don't know a single part of the world where some sort of continuation after death, reincarnation or not does not exist, even ghosts or spirits etc..We just can't live with that idea of "finality".I guess it's human, I don't think anyone doesn't believe in something like that. Even "legacy" is a sort of after death even if it's not "spiritual" it's like a story is kept alive through the closed ones so that the story isn't forgotten and doesn't die(aka memories being passed on). We all need to leave a trace in the world to show that we existed, I agree 100% with whatever on that one , I'm pretty sure the idea of not having some sort of ceremony after someone's death is disturbing to most people for a reason. We need to acknowledge that "bobby was here" in some sort of way and externalize it so it is remembered and doesn't "get lost" by not being transmitted to the outside world.
    Now why does the idea of that "stop" sign bother us? I actually don't really know...
    I always need (my case and probably a lot of other people's)to feel like I am moving towards something, continuously, as if flowing freely and constantly...towards what?I don't know...But I know I need to keep on moving.
    My 2 cents, ^^
    Last edited by Dwigie; 09-30-2008 at 09:32 PM. Reason: second thoughts...
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  5. #35
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    Imagine what life would be like if we possessed our birth and death certificate "from birth"? We would live in a hectic constant rush to "finish" things, I think we'd go crazy. But then again, would we even have the same opinion on death if it was given to us from birth? Would our attitude towards limits in general change?
    I think it would cause a lot of people to mature faster by making them ponder on what they want out of life. Then once realizing that they want a certain thing they would probably work towards that goal.

    I think if somehow everyone today learned of their death date it would cause a lot of people to go crazy just because that isn't a cultural norm and people aren't use to it.

    If it was some sort of norm for the culture though it might run a lot smoother.

    This is an interesting idea to think about...

    I also completely understand you whatever, surely no one wants to believe that there is a complete end somewhere. As a matter of fact, this belief is widespread I don't know a single part of the world where some sort of continuation after death, reincarnation or not does not exist, even ghosts or spirits etc..We just can't live with that idea of "finality".I guess it's human, I don't think anyone doesn't believe in something like that. Even "legacy" is a sort of after death even if it's not "spiritual" it's like a story is kept alive through the closed ones so that the story isn't forgotten and doesn't die(aka memories being passed on). We all need to leave a trace in the world to show that we existed, I agree 100% with whatever on that one , I'm pretty sure the idea of not having some sort of ceremony after someone's death is disturbing to most people for a reason. We need to acknowledge that "bobby was here" in some sort of way and externalize it so it is remembered and doesn't "get lost" by not being transmitted to the outside world.
    We were talking about this in my liteature class. It's amazing how many ancient stories deal with immorality or at least living for as long as you can. For example, the Iliad, Gilgamesh, Thousand and One Nights... We were talking about the different ways people seek out immortality. The major one being of course having a story written about them, or winning a battle and being remembered forever in their legacy. One of the interesting things to think about is children, and how they somewhat make us immortal.

    This brings up the idea, about the human desire to mate. It's in everyone. In fact the body starts to die after mating, it's ingrained within us that after we have reproduced we are almost useless to the species from a biological stand point. That begs the question: does our biology drive us to be immortal (by means of reproduction)? I would say, in a way, yes.

    Now why does the idea of that "stop" sign bother us? I actually don't really know...
    People fear the unknown. They either run from it, destroy it, or accept it for what it is. You can't really destroy death... so running from it and accepting it are the only choices. People run from it in all sorts of ways.

    My opinion is that death is life. I try to just be as content as possible. That's living daily life with content. That includes reaching goals in my life though.

    So then I question: What if I die before I reach those goals? So I try to just live my life as content as I can... of course this brings up the question of what is content, content is different for each person and different for each set of morals. Content is happiness though.

    I think when I look death in the face I will try and challenge it. Then once it's clear I will lose (everyone does) that's when I will think about how content I am... (I was thinking more about something like about to be shot or attacked, if I'm literally on the death bed then I think the "fight it" part doesn't really happen and the "Am I content?" part takes play.)
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  6. #36
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oay serious question, what's the whole problem with death?
    The problem with death is that once it happens you aren't alive anymore. I would think the problem is obvious.
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  7. #37
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    This is confusing me more, things you want to achieve before you die? Why? There are things that I want to achieve and yes death would kinda stop that but so what? It's not a thing I control and so I don't include it in my plans. To do so would be akin to trying to leave the house each day prepared for armageddon.

    See I do understand that people wish to prolong their lives. What I don't understand is why. It seems to be based upon the instinct to survive but extrapolated so a "rational" mind can "reason" it to others. Surely it is obviously not reasoned and not rational. Death is one of those things that everyone must face. There is no option two, no different approach. Why is that so difficult to accept?

    The real joke, to me, is that people waste their lives concerned about it and only when it is imminent do they finally realise that their efforts and concerns are futile. Personally I hope to have no regrets on my death bed.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #38
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    This is confusing me more, things you want to achieve before you die? Why? .... Personally I hope to have no regrets on my death bed.
    You have answered your own question. I imagine that some people have dreams in their heart or soul that they feel compelled to try to achieve before they die, so that when they are on their death bed, they won't have regrets.

    I know that's why I overcame my fears and went to Nashville to try to make it in the music business when I was 19. I was frightened of the unknown and I had a terrible fear of failure, but I was more afraid of turning 40, looking back on my life, and wondering what would have happened if I had dared to go? I knew I wouldn't be able to live with that "what if" so I went. Even though I didn't make it, I'm glad I went because now I don't have to wonder.

  9. #39
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    You have answered your own question. I imagine that some people have dreams in their heart or soul that they feel compelled to try to achieve before they die, so that when they are on their death bed, they won't have regrets.

    I know that's why I overcame my fears and went to Nashville to try to make it in the music business when I was 19. I was frightened of the unknown and I had a terrible fear of failure, but I was more afraid of turning 40, looking back on my life, and wondering what would have happened if I had dared to go? I knew I wouldn't be able to live with that "what if" so I went. Even though I didn't make it, I'm glad I went because now I don't have to wonder.
    To my mind that's more caring about what you do with your life than beating death. Were you to have not tried then it's a worry you have to deal with whlst alive. Afterwards you're unlikely to care.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    ...Personally I hope to have no regrets on my death bed.
    I'm thinking you might regret that you never showered me with more flattery and chocolate and exotic jewelry, and that I'm willing to give you an opportunity to resolve that potentially emotionally painful issue for yourself before you reach that sad sorry state of things.

    Cuz I care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    To my mind that's more caring about what you do with your life than beating death. Were you to have not tried then it's a worry you have to deal with whlst alive. Afterwards you're unlikely to care.
    Probably.

    Only the living worry.
    The dead worry about nothing.
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