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  1. #121
    Senior Member Sacrator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oay serious question, what's the whole problem with death?

    I keep seeing people claiming that a person cannot understand what happens at death and there's an intrinsic need for an afterlife for people's psychological wellbeing.. why?

    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.

    What's the problem with that?
    I went through a period when i decided that i was agnostic. I believe that when your dead your dead and that's it. It really bothered me for a little while and i actually started to look into research institutes dedicated to solving the mysteries of human aging. After looking around i found out human aging will soon be a thing of the past in the next couple thousand years or less. But soon after i just stopped caring and didn't let it get to me anymore. I think the essence of me will live on in my children and i should be glad that i shared the gift of consciousness with them and the children they will have.
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  2. #122
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    But then you would just be the really clever guy over here who said something people believed. Truth is, none of it is provable so people are just going to go with what works for them.
    I thought of that whilst posting. In retrospect you cannot help but have something that people accept as true without question but, as with hope, that shouldn't prevent you trying. If we were lead by questions instead of answers we'd be a wiser society as a whole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrator View Post
    I went through a period when i decided that i was agnostic. I believe that when your dead your dead and that's it. It really bothered me for a little while and i actually started to look into research institutes dedicated to solving the mysteries of human aging. After looking around i found out human aging will soon be a thing of the past in the next couple thousand years or less. But soon after i just stopped caring and didn't let it get to me anymore. I think the essence of me will live on in my children and i should be glad that i shared the gift of consciousness with them and the children they will have.
    What? In a thousand years or so... Who thinks this stuff up? What did they use as the model? A projection of our continued desire to outlive our usefulness? Did they expect random events? Are they mystics?

    You may as well say that in a thousand years tomatoes will rule california... I mean who's to say it's wrong or right?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #123
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    When I was a kid, I remember seeing a show on television that explained how someday we will be able to see people on the other end of the phone when we are talking to them. It seemed impossibly outlandish at the time.

  4. #124
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    When I was a kid, I remember seeing a show on television that explained how someday we will be able to see people on the other end of the phone when we are talking to them. It seemed impossibly outlandish at the time.
    And still is. Funnily enough they never reckoned that people don't want to see who they're talking to every time. Hence household phones aren't video phones in 99% of homes. They could have pursued the technology but it wasn't viable.

    The point is that anything can be claimed to happen in a thousand years.

    "Any technology, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic."
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #125
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Where are you when you're asleep? Do you panic when you feel tired? Are you afraid of falling asleep? If not then what's the deal with death? No, really.
    Difference is, when I go to sleep, I expect to wake up. Death is something which cannot be predicted as far as time, place, cause, etc. goes. When you sleep, you're still existing, still breathing.

    If there is nothing after death, then life really is a gift.

  6. #126
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.

    What's the problem with that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Like Gen says, it's all about fear of loss [and thus fear of emotional pain].
    For those who have been left behind, since the dead feel nothing.
    I always saw funerals as being pointless since the dead is no longer able to see or partake in any "celebration." But I suppose I understand such ritual to exist in order to offer the dead's family and friends some sort of time together to try and get closure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I had a dream last night about someone I loved possibly dying, and it sucked big time.
    I wonder if this had anything to do with him mocking Evan about his dead gf ha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You run from death? You'll be running from life too.
    Death is a part of life, we all encounter people around us dying and one day, we too shall pass.


  7. #127
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    But why associate the loss of hope with hopelessness?

    I personally find faith a wonderful thing but religion an organisation worthy of purging from our society for it's habitually abusive behaviour.

    My point basically was to wonder why people worry about the end for the duration of the journey. It's like living death with some people. To my mind the end cannot come quickly enough for them. At least that way they won't have to worry about it all the time.
    1.) I suppose the immediate reason for most people is that they think in terms of words rather than concepts, and the definition of hopelessness is "without hope." Philosophically, its because the only conceivable alternate state to having hope or not having hope is to exist completely in the moment without anticipation for future events and possibilities, a state of being which is contrary (except for brief periods) to civilization itself.

    2.) and 3.) The reason that organized religious doctrines are so popular is that there is no rational reason to believe in an afterlife or other supernatural concepts, leading to repeated doubts and overall lack of confidence concerning one's "faith" without the social and (most importantly) mental habituation that organized religion provides. To put it bluntly, religion enables people to brainwash themselves into believing what they need to believe in order to enjoy life without the fear of death which led them to embrace some "faith" in supernatural concepts in the first place. In short, for most believers religion/faith is a means of overcoming preoccupation with the fear of death, rather than the cause of it. In the interest of utilitarianism (if not necessarily the hedonistic preferences of the minority of people who seem to be happier without religious beliefs), it would be better to reform organized religion (which for the most part has already taken place in developed Christian and Buddhist countries) rather than attempt to purge it from society.

    Edit: in case there is any misunderstanding, my use of the word "hedonism" is meant solely to distinguish between personal utility and aggregate utility, not as an endorsement of any particular concept of morality.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 09-08-2009 at 01:46 PM. Reason: self-evident

  8. #128
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oay serious question, what's the whole problem with death?

    I keep seeing people claiming that a person cannot understand what happens at death and there's an intrinsic need for an afterlife for people's psychological wellbeing.. why?

    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.

    What's the problem with that?
    I haven't read the rest of the thread, specifically because it'd alter how I respond here XD

    But yeah, there's a few issues with it for MOST people:


    - It is unknown, not knowing is scarry
    - It is INFINITE, infinite DEATH is beyond human comprehension
    - Fear of afterlife; those who do believe in an afterlife have fear of infinite reprocussions for finite sin, this can make them terrified that if they did ONE thing wrong, they'd burn in hell forever or whotever
    - Not being able to see the future, never getting to see their children grow up, can be heartbreaking to some
    - Not finishing whot they were doing; they may feel compelled to have some task to complete and get pissy if they weren't done yet because death's an impatient bastage that just won't wait
    - Not wanting to give up their loved ones, they often feel compelled to remain behind to give strength and be with the ones they care about


    Things like children, a legacy, a monument, history, these are things to allow people to 'exist after death', and continue on. I won't bother touching on them right now, but for the most part, they fail, for the same reason most of the reasons do.



    I am only really affected by one... the lack of seeing the future. I'd love to see the technological advances we'd make years from now, but I won't get to. It's a shame really but whot can yeu do?

    The rest... well... YEU'RE DEAD.

    Yes, death is in and of itself it's own solution.

    If yeu're DEAD, yeu're not around to care anymore now are yeu?

    If we go to some afterlife, then yeu won't be thinking about yeur previous existance. If yeu disappear entirely, well then yeu don't exist so can't care either. Once yeu're gone, either way, yeu have no further care about whot happened in yeur life anymore. Yeu. Are. Gone. There is no comming back, except through the belief of reincarnation, and even then that's worthless because yeu don't remember any of it so whot was the point of that? Regardless, yeu still don't remember it, so it still doesn't affect yeu.

    By all definitions, once yeu are dead, it no longer matters whot happened in life, or whot yeu missed out on, or anything yeu failed to accomplish. Yeu're dead, so yeu don't care anymore.

    The only thing yeu can fear is something yeu don't understand, but I figure, by the time I get to the point where I have to face the infinite, I won't be around to consider the alternatives anymore so it's kind of pointless now isn't it to worry about the whole thing huh?

    In any case, most people are just scared, of one thing or another. Of the unknown, or not being able to do whotever, but they're scared of things they can't control. It's a waste of resources, spend yeur life working on the things yeu CAN control. Extend yeur life if yeu can if it's feasable, but don't panic over it. If yeu die, yeu die, yes it sucks but yeu're not around to care so stop worrying about it. If yeu worry, all yeu'll have done is wasted the time yeu did have, and were so busy worrying yeu probably missed out on a great number of opportunities that could've helped yeu out in other ways.

    So yeah... death MAY be bad, or it MAY not, either way, the point is moot and irrelevant. Yeu will not be there to see it so yeu really shouldn't concern yeurself with it right now.

  9. #129
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    I haven't read the rest of the thread, specifically because it'd alter how I respond here XD

    But yeah, there's a few issues with it for MOST people:


    - It is unknown, not knowing is scarry
    - It is INFINITE, infinite DEATH is beyond human comprehension
    - Fear of afterlife; those who do believe in an afterlife have fear of infinite reprocussions for finite sin, this can make them terrified that if they did ONE thing wrong, they'd burn in hell forever or whotever
    - Not being able to see the future, never getting to see their children grow up, can be heartbreaking to some
    - Not finishing whot they were doing; they may feel compelled to have some task to complete and get pissy if they weren't done yet because death's an impatient bastage that just won't wait
    - Not wanting to give up their loved ones, they often feel compelled to remain behind to give strength and be with the ones they care about


    Things like children, a legacy, a monument, history, these are things to allow people to 'exist after death', and continue on. I won't bother touching on them right now, but for the most part, they fail, for the same reason most of the reasons do.



    I am only really affected by one... the lack of seeing the future. I'd love to see the technological advances we'd make years from now, but I won't get to. It's a shame really but whot can yeu do?

    The rest... well... YEU'RE DEAD.

    Yes, death is in and of itself it's own solution.

    If yeu're DEAD, yeu're not around to care anymore now are yeu?

    If we go to some afterlife, then yeu won't be thinking about yeur previous existance. If yeu disappear entirely, well then yeu don't exist so can't care either. Once yeu're gone, either way, yeu have no further care about whot happened in yeur life anymore. Yeu. Are. Gone. There is no comming back, except through the belief of reincarnation, and even then that's worthless because yeu don't remember any of it so whot was the point of that? Regardless, yeu still don't remember it, so it still doesn't affect yeu.

    By all definitions, once yeu are dead, it no longer matters whot happened in life, or whot yeu missed out on, or anything yeu failed to accomplish. Yeu're dead, so yeu don't care anymore.

    The only thing yeu can fear is something yeu don't understand, but I figure, by the time I get to the point where I have to face the infinite, I won't be around to consider the alternatives anymore so it's kind of pointless now isn't it to worry about the whole thing huh?

    In any case, most people are just scared, of one thing or another. Of the unknown, or not being able to do whotever, but they're scared of things they can't control. It's a waste of resources, spend yeur life working on the things yeu CAN control. Extend yeur life if yeu can if it's feasable, but don't panic over it. If yeu die, yeu die, yes it sucks but yeu're not around to care so stop worrying about it. If yeu worry, all yeu'll have done is wasted the time yeu did have, and were so busy worrying yeu probably missed out on a great number of opportunities that could've helped yeu out in other ways.

    So yeah... death MAY be bad, or it MAY not, either way, the point is moot and irrelevant. Yeu will not be there to see it so yeu really shouldn't concern yeurself with it right now.
    Yeu!!!


  10. #130
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    So yeah... death MAY be bad, or it MAY not, either way, the point is moot and irrelevant. Yeu will not be there to see it so yeu really shouldn't concern yeurself with it right now.
    Good analysis, but are you purposely saying 'yeu' for 'you' ??

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