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  1. #101
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    Yes but I am also what I am to myself, and that ends at death, thus I become only what I am to you and others who remember me, so although that partially happens when I leave your side physically it is only partial but it is complete once I'm dead.
    Complete only in the sense that there will be no more chapters from the original hand. The memories still "live".
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    Also even if you don't believe in judgment but just an afterlife still it effects people, remember the conversation in the lord of the rings between Gandalf and Pippin in Minas Tirith? About what happens when you die and Pippin concludes "that doesn't sounds so bad"? IT meant they behaved differently, instead of running like mad to find someway out they were able to face the challenge ahead of them. Being J may help with all that though...
    I wasn't going to tackle that but seeing as it's a recurring thought train... this afterlife malarky. Even if you never age, never know anything but your ideal of everything then it's either
    A- A drug haven where none interact as each person's view of perfect would then impact on other's and hence bring the whole thing down.
    or
    B- Going to get very, very, very boring at some point.

    It's kinda odd but even given the choice between oblivion and such nirivana I'm still not so sure I'd jump away from oblivion quite as fast as I'm supposed to.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #102
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I'm happy for you!
    Not as happy as I am!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I wasn't going to tackle that but seeing as it's a recurring thought train... this afterlife malarky. Even if you never age, never know anything but your ideal of everything then it's either
    A- A drug haven where none interact as each person's view of perfect would then impact on other's and hence bring the whole thing down.
    or
    B- Going to get very, very, very boring at some point.

    It's kinda odd but even given the choice between oblivion and such nirivana I'm still not so sure I'd jump away from oblivion quite as fast as I'm supposed to.
    Ah but now you are changing the question, from "is there an afterlife?" to "what must/should that after life be like?"

    AS for a choice between certain oblivion and uncertain eternity, I'm sorry I think I'd pick eternity. I'd think about it some though!

  3. #103
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    Ah but now you are changing the question, from "is there an afterlife?" to "what must/should that after life be like?"
    More like questioning the philosophy behind the theories that created the idea of an afterlife.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    AS for a choice between certain oblivion and uncertain eternity, I'm sorry I think I'd pick eternity. I'd think about it some though!
    I think I would too but I'm not so sure I could find enough to fill an eternity. Just imagining the whole learning process and then waiting for people to catch up so you can see the whole thing in completion would be a pain... assuming the whole looking down from a cloud works.. of course if you can just go create whatever you like then that would be different.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #104
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oay serious question, what's the whole problem with death?

    I keep seeing people claiming that a person cannot understand what happens at death and there's an intrinsic need for an afterlife for people's psychological wellbeing.. why?

    I've always thought the same thing, when you're dead you're dead. It stops. Nothing happens. A total absence of you. You're not there, you're dead.

    What's the problem with that?
    The problem is not existing anymore. The lack of existing, and just not existing for eternity. But I think there might be something else out there, after death. I really think there might be. The soul is separated from the body.

  5. #105
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    The problem is not existing anymore. The lack of existing, and just not existing for eternity. But I think there might be something else out there, after death. I really think there might be. The soul is separated from the body.
    Where are you when you're asleep? Do you panic when you feel tired? Are you afraid of falling asleep? If not then what's the deal with death? No, really.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #106
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Are you afraid of falling asleep? If not then what's the deal with death? No, really.
    When one falls asleep, the expectation is that one will wake up. At worst, sleep is a transitory inconvenience that temporarily suspends your consciousness, not a permanent state of non-existence of your "self". Death is the ultimate limitation of hope and possibilities, not a temporary blackout. I really don't see how this distinction is less than obvious. As for pre-birth/conception, your consciousness doesn't exist, so there is no "self" to be tormented by the limitation/loss of hope which death represents. People fear death/oblivion because of its impact on their conscious lives, not for the state of non-being itself.

  7. #107
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    When one falls asleep, the expectation is that one will wake up. At worst, sleep is a transitory inconvenience that temporarily suspends your consciousness, not a permanent state of non-existence of your "self". Death is the ultimate limitation of hope and possibilities, not a temporary blackout. I really don't see how this distinction is less than obvious. As for pre-birth/conception, your consciousness doesn't exist, so there is no "self" to be tormented by the limitation/loss of hope which death represents. People fear death/oblivion because of its impact on their conscious lives, not for the state of non-being itself.
    The point being is that the future does not exist. The only thing that seems to scare people about death is that it's the ultimate "oh you're too late to do that" and because they're supposed to. In my opinion that's lame.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #108
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    The point being is that the future does not exist. The only thing that seems to scare people about death is that it's the ultimate "oh you're too late to do that" and because they're supposed to. In my opinion that's lame.
    And in my opinion to live without anticipation for the future is to live without hope, which I think is lame.

    If the future doesn't exist, why work or save for retirement? Why strive to better your lot at all? Humans have to live in anticipation (i.e. hope) for a better future than the present in order to derive any utility beyond the moment in question, and to get through transitory misery.

    Besides, my curiosity concerning the future is boundless

  9. #109
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I am glad many people believe in afterlife. I don't believe in afterlife myself, but I know plenty of people that would go rogue on society should they believe the same as me.

    It's good that some people believe they will be judged at the end of their life.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #110
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I am glad many people believe in afterlife. I don't believe in afterlife myself, but I know plenty of people that would go rogue on society should they believe the same as me.

    It's good that some people believe they will be judged at the end of their life.
    I actually think such people are generally balanced out by those who would utilize religion (however sincerely) to bring pain upon others. My general support for the existence of religion, despite my agnosticism, has more to do with the subjective utility of individuals rather than the direct impact of religious beliefs on society.

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