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  1. #171
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    IF3157 just has an unfortunate inclination toward attacking the credibility of the posters and not the arguments themselves.

    Weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    IF3157 just has an unfortunate inclination toward attacking the credibility of the posters and not the arguments themselves.

    Weak.
    Wow. And how have I attacked you rather than your arguments here (e.g.: judgments on your "weakness" included)? Or are they one and the same?

    On your Fi - I don't claim to know people better than they know themselves so the usual caveats apply.

    But hatred is not the opposite of love; hatred comes from love. Indifference is much more powerful than hatred. Indifference starves while hatred feeds, and that which feeds is reduced of its own power (except with love).
    Just as peace is the absence of war and darkness is the absence of light, indifference is the absence of love. But hatred is not the opposite of love; hatred comes from love. Indifference is much more powerful than hatred. Indifference starves while hatred feeds, and that which feeds is reduced of its own power (except with love).
    All of this speaks to an unrealistic, idealistic view of humanity.
    Hatred comes from the love you previously had. Rejection from a lover, disappointment in your relative/authority figure, lost faith in humanity..
    Eliminated because of your love for an ideal humanity?
    - Betrays an idealistic feely understanding of human emotions and motivations. The drive is not to understand what it is plain and simple, the drive is to process it in these romantic tones and feel harmonious with the settled knowledge as you have absorbed it in the values of your inner world. This "knowledge" you then claim to be power.

    But instead of finding power within (recognising your worth and believing in your abilities, regardless of what Joe Schmo thinks), these people grasp for power outside themselves (showing Joe Schmo that he's wrong by force/punishment/revenge, which gives value to his opinion).
    quintessential Fi-dom creation and stubborn grip of own internal values. Like your question above
    Eliminated because of your love for an ideal humanity?
    - it suggests a person whose only interest in the actual facts of the case are to support the values at which you have arrived, reality be damned. That and this
    Forgiveness can be simply freeing yourself from the grip of resentment, anger, bitterness, fear, etc. (through the natural process of grieving) and choosing not to feel victimised, choosing to believe and really understand that it had more to do with the other person than you.
    To top it off, your view (subsequently deleted) that you don't care what the definition of forgiveness was - smacks of a strongly internal value system that has not much use for objective definitions - whether those are even possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja
    I'll watch and see. Maybe IF has some unresolved anger issues?
    I do?
    How very typical. Please feel free to apply quack-psychology as you see fit.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #172
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    IF3157 has a point.

  3. #173
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    Wow. And how have I attacked you rather than your arguments here (e.g.: judgments on your "weakness" included)? Or are they one and the same?

    On your Fi - I don't claim to know people better than they know themselves so the usual caveats apply.

    All of this speaks to an unrealistic, idealistic view of humanity.
    - Betrays an idealistic feely understanding of human emotions and motivations. The drive is not to understand what it is plain and simple, the drive is to process it in these romantic tones and feel harmonious with the settled knowledge as you have absorbed it in the values of your inner world. This "knowledge" you then claim to be power.

    quintessential Fi-dom creation and stubborn grip of own internal values. Like your question above - it suggests a person whose only interest in the actual facts of the case are to support the values at which you have arrived, reality be damned. That and this

    To top it off, your view (subsequently deleted) that you don't care what the definition of forgiveness was - smacks of a strongly internal value system that has not much use for objective definitions - whether those are even possible.
    Thanks for sharing your perceptions, IF3157.

  4. #174
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    ^
    We speak completely different languages.
    Exactly haha.

    Holy crap, I don't go on this thread for a day and I come back to a massive clusterfuck of...aldjfaldkjafkdl. I must say I'm enjoying the INFP/INTP debate lol. IF3157 you make some good (very logical ) points and i must commend you on them. i think everybody is just different internally (im seeing a Ti/Fi spit) and deals with forgiveness in their own ways. are you morally wrong for NOT forgiving, of course not. the question the original poster posted was (i think) "are there any unforgivable sins" which really is a stupid question now that i think about it because technically anything can be forgivable. to the other extreme, everything might be unforgivable. now the way (i would believe and im no expert) society would see forgiveness is for example: your sister or brother is murdered and you dont forgive, society probably wouldn't look down on that, its understandable not to forgive in that situation (though they would view forgiving in that situation very highly). now lets say your friend lies to you but is sincerely sorry about it and you dont forgive them just because you want to hurt them in return, well that i personally would look down on. it all depends on your "value" system.
    Everything is unforgivable, for us humans simply don't have the power to do anything in this lifetime that is big enough to disrupt the perfect equilibrium that we exist in, and that will lead us to our destination. Furthermore, there is always a point of self-realization after a wrongdoing..despite how small, the sinner will always feel at least a pinch of grief..and for those too messed up too, they must be pardoned for they know not what they do.
    Though i would somewhat agree, bad thing to say on this thread/board/the internet lol. then again im guilty of doing similar
    My bad. I thought you embraced the view as a truth.
    it's cool. ya an average person in this society would probably have trouble picking up a gun and killing someone haha. at least i hope that's true. im assuming in gandhi's society it wouldn't be as big of a deal.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  5. #175

    Default My riddle for y'all---The most powerful weapon in the world is. . .

    Howdy, I would like to comment. In the Bible, check it out for yourself in Matthew chapter 12, Mark chapter 3, and Luke chapter 12. Read the whole chapter to get the big picture of what Jesus was responding to when he said, "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." I will try to explain for y'all. Jesus was doing incredible miracles, opening blind eyes, healing lame and crippled people, casting out demons, etc. The religious leaders were jealous of Jesus' favor with God---Jesus had great favor because he was the Son of God and did exactly what his Father instructed him to do---and because of what Jesus was given the authority to do. Therefore in order to make Jesus look bad in front of all the people who were awestruck at the miracle upon miracle upon miracle, their jealousy---fueled by satan and his demons---churned their snake-pit minds up to a fury and they lied in front of everyone saying to Jesus, [my paraphrase attempt] You are the devil and you get your power from the devil/satan/beelzebub. You are not God's Son; you are evil and what you do for these people is hurt and deceive them.

    However, the truth was that Jesus is the Son of God, God loved the entire created world to give us all chance to see and believe on Jesus because of what he did and is still doing today, and that the healings and casting out of demons was done by the finger of God. The devil was trying to blashpeme the Holy Spirit. These religious leaders knew better but their envy and jealousy caused them to lie and blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Therefore Jesus says that if you know that God is the source behind miracles and you still insist that the devil should get the credit, you are up shit creek in hell with no way out ever.

    More about the answer to my riddle next time. I ran out of time at the library. I hope this answer helps someone somewhere.
    Nothing, nothing, nothing is impossible with GOD.

  6. #176
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grasshoppersings View Post
    "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
    Well, I'm screwed then.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  7. #177
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grasshoppersings View Post
    "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
    And the sin against the Holy Spirit is despair.

    And despair is such a common sin, it has been turned into an illness.

    And today only the heartless would call clinical depression a sin.

    The bien-pensant have converted a sin into an illness.

  8. #178
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Forgiveness cannot be forced. Truth is more important.
    Heart! You're my heart.

  9. #179
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And the sin against the Holy Spirit is despair.
    Interesting! I thought it was apostasy.

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Interesting! I thought it was apostasy.
    Perhaps it is open to interpretation.

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