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  1. #151
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Forgiveness can be simply freeing yourself from the grip of resentment, anger, bitterness, fear, etc. (through the natural process of grieving) and choosing not to feel victimised, choosing to believe and really understand that it had more to do with the other person than you.
    Can't you do all that without forgiving? Are we redefining forgiveness? I mean, I can really understand and believe something a shithead does is about their deficiencies as a human being without forgiving the shithead.
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  2. #152
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    You can, I think. That's using mind to deal with feelings and is an option. The question remains whether one can let go of the resentment. That I doubt. In that case rationalization would be an unhealthy defense against grief.

    The key lies in acceptance of it and that's something we resist as humans. It makes us feel powerless, as Uber pointed out.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    You can, I think. That's using mind to deal with feelings and is an option. The question remains whether one can let go of the resentment. That I doubt. In that case rationalization would be an unhealthy defense against grief.

    The key lies in acceptance of it and that's something we resist as humans. It makes us feel powerless, as Uber pointed out.
    We speak completely different languages, i.e. I prefer not to stipulate that a coping mechanism is "unhealthy rationalization" if it works for whoever does it. Further, I don't see how that is a rationalization. You accept that the person is a bottom-feeder whom you henceforth don't give 2 shits about because they have problems they need to work out and you move on. Nothing powerless in that.
    I have forgiven people before and found nothing particularly empowering in it.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  4. #154
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Premature acceptance (pseudo acceptance) can make you feel powerless.

    For example, if your boyfriend dumps you, and you try to "accept" it before you go through the stages of grief, you will be accepting something that is very infused with your current feelings. That can make you feel powerless, in that you haven't yet put everything into perspective and approached the matter in a more disinterested manner.

    I do not think that acceptance makes you feel powerless. Acceptance comes from understanding; knowledge is power.

    That is why forgiveness is so empowering!

  5. #155
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Premature acceptance (pseudo acceptance) can make you feel powerless.

    I do not think that (adds the word "true" here)acceptance makes you feel powerless.
    There it is, from my perspective!
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #156
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Perhaps I should just use the word "acceptance" instead of forgiveness.

    So you were right

    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157
    Can't you do all that without forgiving? Are we redefining forgiveness? I mean, I can really understand and believe something a shithead does is about their deficiencies as a human being without forgiving the shithead.

  7. #157
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Ah. Dunno. But I certainly appreciate having a Tee come along and clarify things.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #158
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    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #159
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    OW! No! No! No!

    Stoppit!

    No sarcasm intended. I did feel that disregard helped clarify for me.

    Yes, indeed, we DO speak two different languages.

    "Is this abuse? I paid for an argument.":steam:
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #160
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    Argue MOAR for my clarification. It still sounds all fuzzy to me. And disregard speaks the F tongue so no wonder you agree with each other.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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