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  1. #141
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    If I were to apply that idea to myself I'd have to word it this way: It's easier to take up a weapon and kill someone than it is to go to the ego-battering work it takes to say, "I forgive you." and truly feel and mean it.
    /end dramatics?

    Wow. We have some cold-blooded killers in our midst.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #142
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    It is not a given that anyone can pick up a weapon and kill. Forgiving on average requires considerably less effort. It is also hogwash to think that offenders simply needs to learn a lesson and justice is or should be for their benefit. For all the vaunted understanding of humanity that many profess to have it never ceases to amaze me that there is a drive to block out the less-than-fluffy aggressive (and yes, murderous) drives that make us human. I for one have no use for a neutered humanity.
    lol i was talking about in the society that gandhi lived in so take it as a metaphor if you so choose.

    EDIT:

    I even wrote "in his case" in parenthesis
    /end dramatics?
    your talking to two XNFPs lol what do you expect haha
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  3. #143
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    lol i was talking about in the society that gandhi lived in so take it as a metaphor if you so choose.

    EDIT:

    I even wrote "in his case" in parenthesis
    My bad. I thought you embraced the view as a truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    your talking to two XNFPs lol what do you expect haha

    What was I thinking. Pardon me.
    *exits stage right*
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  4. #144
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    mlittrel said it for me. I plead innocence for type. Can't help it.

    I may add that with your present avatar you'd best not be slinging slurs about "dramatics!" Hee. Murder most foul and unforgiveable. Who's "dramatic?"

    When anything upsets me/throws me out of healthy balance, the problem is within me.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #145
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    mlittrel said it for me. I plead innocence for type. Can't help it.

    I may add that with your present avatar you'd best not be slinging slurs about "dramatics! Hee. Murder most foul and unforgiveable. Who's "dramatic?"

    Touch, madam. Touch.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #146
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Sorry I cannot find the post to give it attribution but somebody here said something about forgiveness being a defense against, was it, grief?

    I've been thinking about that for a couple of days. There are healthy defenses that everybody needs. But I think the idea of defending against grief, or any unpleasant and intense feeling, is counterproductive.

    In my view the idea is to acknowledge and accept that you are carrying grief and then work through it in a manner which lightens or dispells it. (Grief, of course, being a recurring theme in all human life.)

    The defenses just build a stronger and stronger wall which some day may break and deluge you with years of stored grief. Used to call it a "nervous breakdown," I think.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #147
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Forgiveness comes after the stages of grief, IME.

  8. #148
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I think so too. Trying to remember the stages of succesfully working through grief.

    1. Anger
    2. Anger
    3. Anger. . .

    Ahem.

    I think they're

    1. Denial
    2. Anger
    3. Bargaining
    4. Depression
    5. Acceptance

    Did I get that right?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #149
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Forgiveness can be simply freeing yourself from the grip of resentment, anger, bitterness, fear, etc. (through the natural process of grieving) and choosing not to feel victimised, choosing to believe and really understand that it had more to do with the other person than you.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Bravo! You said that so well.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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