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  1. #131
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Well, no one wants to feel powerless.
    But instead of finding power within (recognising your worth and believing in your abilities, regardless of what Joe Schmo thinks), these people grasp for power outside themselves (showing Joe Schmo that he's wrong by force/punishment/revenge, which gives value to his opinion).

  2. #132
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Well, no one wants to feel powerless.
    Too true. Don'tcha hate that feeling - like being little again?

    Maybe that's where that Gandhi statment comes in. Rethinking what we have been culturally taught. Rethinking weakness.

    Who is stronger? The man who chooses to live in peaceful coexistence or the man who chooses to destroy out of his will run riot and ends up being restrained by society?

    When Johnny Cash started his recovery from his drug addiction he had to face this paradox of surrender being a strength.

    He said something to the effect that all the tough dudes he'd been using with thought he was a wimp but he saw that they were going down while he was standing strong.
    Last edited by Anja; 09-30-2008 at 03:32 PM. Reason: CHANGING SPELLING TO WATCH OUT FOR THE SPELLING NAZI"! Hee.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #133
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I especially appreciate bluebell and heart's comments. There is a personal aspect of this topic in which one person's experience with coming to terms with violation is not comparable to another's, so the definition of the process is variable.

    The individual I could reasonably hate has lived a marvelously successful life financially and in obtaining professional power. I had to reexamine my sense of inner resolution when I came across information from which I could extrapolate based on experience that he has ruined many lives over the years and does not outwardly appear to be accountable in any way. His inner desires are sadistic, but he knows when and how to vent them without getting caught. He focuses his cruelty on people who are too vulnerable to have the credibility needed to take him down. I started to feel rage when encountering recent information, but realized that rage was making me more like him. He has a history of cause and effect that at least in part produced who he is. The role of self will and choice is difficult to measure or understand. I attempt to be what he is not and to be courageous because of the fear he initially instilled in me. Those things he sees as weakness have become my source of inner strength. I have an idea that I am stronger inside than he could even imagine being for himself. It is a continual process and not one that is nicely packaged up and never revisited. I don't wish him punished in a gratuitous sense, but would stop him from creating more suffering if given the opportunity. There are scenarios where I would show him mercy because it is my strength, but would not do so if it allowed for more suffering from his hands. My sense of forgiveness is not the fluffy sort that makes a nice caption on a poster with a kitten picture. It's more pragmatic and reasoned. It delineates between what I can and cannot control. My own reactions are the limit of my domain. It has to do with taking whatever advantages and setbacks life has offered me and attempting to build from those the best structure for my life that I can. I try to figure out what type of person I would like to be and then use the negatives and positives both as tools to build that sort of character with my choices.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #134
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I was thinking something similar when I thought about Gandi's statement, toonia. It's like taking lemons and turning them into lemonade!
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    But instead of finding power within (recognising your worth and believing in your abilities, regardless of what Joe Schmo thinks).
    How does this magic work?

  6. #136
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Personally, I try to work off of the "Always forgive, never forget" line of thinking, unless it's something like murdering my family or the like. (In which case, you will be next seen at the bottom of a lake.)

    Not moving on from a dispute, or seeking revenge over things is a waste of time and energy. Better to continue normally, but remember what they did so if it comes up again, you can avoid the problem entirely.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  7. #137
    heart on fire
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    Toonia, he sounds like a socialized psychopath. 1 in 30 people.

  8. #138
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    the point of that ghandi statement was that anyone can (in his case) pick up a weapon and kill but not everyone can forgive. and does forgiveness make a difference. i would think so, depending on the situation of course. i think that justice can still be served and you can still forgive also. then its justice not for the sake of "hurting because he hurt me" but it is for the persons own good (so that they learn a lesson and such).
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  9. #139
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    It is not a given that anyone can pick up a weapon and kill. Forgiving on average requires considerably less effort. It is also hogwash to think that offenders simply needs to learn a lesson and justice is or should be for their benefit. For all the vaunted understanding of humanity that many profess to have it never ceases to amaze me that there is a drive to block out the less-than-fluffy aggressive (and yes, murderous) drives that make us human. I for one have no use for a neutered humanity.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #140
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    It is not a given that anyone can pick up a weapon and kill. Forgiving on average requires considerably less effort. It is also hogwash to think that offenders simply needs to learn a lesson and justice is or should be for their benefit. For all the vaunted understanding of humanity that many profess to have it never ceases to amaze me that there is a drive to block out the less-than-fluffy aggressive (and yes, murderous) drives that make us human. I for one have no use for a neutered humanity.


    If I were to apply that idea to myself I'd have to word it this way: It's easier to take up a weapon and kill someone than it is to go to the ego-battering work it takes to say, "I forgive you." and truly feel and mean it.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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