If God doesn't exist then how was everything/the earth created?

[Straylight]

1. Give a formal definition of the term "God" that is not self-refuting (i.e., trying to define a square as a circle).

2. Demonstrate that an explanation for the knowable universe is incomplete without including "God" as defined in (1), otherwise, occam's razor applies (the simplest explanation is preferable).


The above would be grounds for a rational hypothesis. The following would be needed to make an objective claim:

3. Provide irrefutable falsifiable evidence that "God" must exist as defined in (1).


For the record, I am not an atheist, but I will say this, I don't envy the work you're going to need to put in to produce the things on this list.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

10. Once you accept that physical evidences show much more evidences of evolution than creation it becomes evident that what we are watching right now is just a snapshot. In other words evolution isn't over and for 20 000 years humans will look differently than today, even if we skip the whole thing that involves genetic modifications, robots, cyborgs etc. As a matter of fact races are the start of divergent evolution that will take various human populations in different directions on the long run (each adepting to their environment). Actually the story of Adam and Eve is quite fishy if we consider that we have all those races on the planet, plus on the very long run the changes will be so large that our far ascendants wouldn't even look like humans. Especially if they will live somewhere in space for millions of generation that are yet to come. However the odds are that far future will belong to the machines since they are by definition more adaptable to the harsh, cold and radioactive reality that is our universe, especially since they can multiply much faster than organic life.

I think you are mistaken about the human races. We are mixing quite nicely and, if anything, converging.

On the other hand, there is a different possibility. The left-wing people are becoming unable to interbreed with the right-wing people (or the other way around). So in the future, we may end up with something like Red-Necked Humans and Bleeding-Hearted Humans (where these names will denote actual phenotypic characteristics, like red-breasted robin, not epithets), living in different environments, having different diets, etc.

 

[Mole]

The rest of the universe is accelerating away from us in every direction, yet theology is completely silent on this. It would seem to define our very existence. What can it possibly mean?

 

[Mole]

Originally Posted by Virtual ghost -
10. Once you accept that physical evidences show much more evidences of evolution than creation it becomes evident that what we are watching right now is just a snapshot. In other words evolution isn't over and for 20 000 years humans will look differently than today, even if we skip the whole thing that involves genetic modifications, robots, cyborgs etc. As a matter of fact races are the start of divergent evolution that will take various human populations in different directions on the long run (each adepting to their environment). Actually the story of Adam and Eve is quite fishy if we consider that we have all those races on the planet, plus on the very long run the changes will be so large that our far ascendants wouldn't even look like humans. Especially if they will live somewhere in space for millions of generation that are yet to come. However the odds are that far future will belong to the machines since they are by definition more adaptable to the harsh, cold and radioactive reality that is our universe, especially since they can multiply much faster than organic life.

Large celled animals like us have a short evolutionary life, at best measured in millions of years. So in evolutionary terms we will soon join the millions of other species who are extinct.

 

[Population: 1]

It means the universe has an expiration date, just like everything in it. No need to cry in our cheerios about it. If this species ever gets its shit together we may get off this rock, expand and survive long enough to figure out at some point how to find another universe. If you believe in the existence of multiple universes and that we will get our shit together.

The former I believe in. The latter? Eh, sometimes I wonder.

 

[Mole]

It means the universe has an expiration date, just like everything in it. No need to cry in our cheerios about it. If this species ever gets its shit together we may get off this rock, expand and survive long enough to figure out at some point how to find another universe. If you believe in the existence of multiple universes and that we will get our shit together.

The former I believe in. The latter? Eh, sometimes I wonder.

Multiple universes have the same standing as the supernatural. And serves to deny that all of our universe is accelerating away from us in every direction.

 

[Population: 1]

Multiple universes have the same standing as the supernatural. And serves to deny that all of our universe is accelerating away from us in every direction.

Are you suggesting the theory of multiple universes is something to be lumped in with Bigfoot and the Lochness Monster?

If this space we occupy is infinite than this Big Bang that our galaxy and all others supposedly originated from could be but one of many that have happened are happening and will happen. The distance between one expanding group of Matter and another could be ridiculously huge. Therefore you could have multiple Big Bangs producing multiple universes within this infinite space. Like throwing rocks in different areas of a massive lake. The ripples caused by each rock would never reach each other.

 

[Mole]

Are you suggesting the theory of multiple universes is something to be lumped in with Bigfoot and the Lochness Monster?

If this space we occupy is infinite than this Big Bang that our galaxy and all others supposedly originated from could be but one of many that have happened are happening and will happen. The distance between one expanding group of Matter and another could be ridiculously huge. Therefore you could have multiple Big Bangs producing multiple universes within this infinite space. Like throwing rocks in different areas of a massive lake. The ripples caused by each rock would never reach each other.

Unable to understand or know the meaning of our universe accelerating away from us in every direction, you fatasise about multiple universes in the same way you fantasise about personality.

 

[Population: 1]

Ripples in a pond flowing outward. Never backwards. I comprehend it just find. It is you who appears befuddled by what I postulated. Multiple ripples same pond. Simple enough yes?

 

[Totenkindly]

the "human races"?

At last call, we can still all reproduce together perfectly fine. And since we've already expanded to fill the planet, there isn't going to be further differentiation between us -- in fact, we've been intermarrying again due to globalism and so if anything the various categories of the human race [note: no 's'] will begin to appear more alike.

 

[Coriolis]

the "human races"?

Indeed there is really only one human race.

 

[Mole]

Ripples in a pond flowing outward. Never backwards. I comprehend it just find. It is you who appears befuddled by what I postulated. Multiple ripples same pond. Simple enough yes?

With respect, there is no evidence for multiple universes, what we have is the mathematics of multiple universes without any evidence. The mathematical map of multiple universes is a map without a territory. It is fascinating, and some time in the future we may discover evidence for the existence of multiple universes, in the same way we may discover evidence for the existence of Ganesh, the God with the head of an elephant, or we may discover evidence for the existence of the Trinity, the God with three heads.

 

[Coriolis]

With respect, there is no evidence for multiple universes, what we have is the mathematics of multiple universes without any evidence. The mathematical map of multiple universes is a map without a territory. It is fascinating, and some time in the future we may discover evidence for the existence of multiple universes, in the same way we may discover evidence for the existence of Ganesh, the God with the head of an elephant, or we may discover evidence for the existence of the Trinity, the God with three heads.

One might say you are comparing apples and oranges. We cannot demonstrate the existence of God(s) by scientific means, as we might some day demonstrate the existence of these multiple universes. The latter belongs squarely in the physical world, while the former must transcend it if it/they are in fact deific.

 

[Mole]

One might say you are comparing apples and oranges. We cannot demonstrate the existence of God(s) by scientific means, as we might some day demonstrate the existence of these multiple universes. The latter belongs squarely in the physical world, while the former must transcend it if it/they are in fact deific.

C'mon, multiple universes is a variation of the explanation of the existence of the universe by saying it is elephants all the way down meaning the universe rests on the back of an elephant, which rests on the back of another elephant, ad infinitum.

And the elephants hypothesis and the multiple universes hypothesis are variations of the supernatural explanation, and there is no evidence for any of them.

All three are maps for which there are no territories.

 

[Coriolis]

C'mon, multiple universes is a variation of the explanation of the existence of the universe by saying it is elephants all the way down meaning the universe rests on the back of an elephant, which rests on the back of another elephant, ad infinitum.

And the elephants hypothesis and the multiple universes hypothesis are variations of the supernatural explanation, and there is no evidence for any of them.

All three are maps for which there are no territories.

Not at all. You are making assumptions about elephant organization that are not part of the multiple universe idea. Parallel vs. series and all.

 

[Population: 1]

C'mon, multiple universes is a variation of the explanation of the existence of the universe by saying it is elephants all the way down meaning the universe rests on the back of an elephant, which rests on the back of another elephant, ad infinitum.

And the elephants hypothesis and the multiple universes hypothesis are variations of the supernatural explanation, and there is no evidence for any of them.

All three are maps for which there are no territories.

Albert Einstein theorizes black holes could exist: 1916
First black hole discovered: 1971

I suppose black holes were riding the unicorn express before 1971 right? And to think there was one at the center of the Milky Way the whole time, completely unconcerned with whether or not humans knew it was there.

The math has been done. The existence of multiple universes is theoretically possible. Haven't heard of anyone calculating the likelihood of infinitely stacked elephants yet.

 

[Mole]

Albert Einstein theorizes black holes could exist: 1916
First black hole discovered: 1971

I suppose black holes were riding the unicorn express before 1971 right? And to think there was one at the center of the Milky Way the whole time, completely unconcerned with whether or not humans knew it was there.

The math has been done. The existence of multiple universes is theoretically possible. Haven't heard of anyone calculating the likelihood of infinitely stacked elephants yet.

It's true the maths are very exciting, but just as the map is not the territory, the math is not the reality.

It is a common mistake to confuse the map with the territory, just as young poets want their love poems to come true, and old poets know poetry does nothing.

 

[Population: 1]

It's true the maths are very exciting, but just as the map is not the territory, the math is not the reality.

It is a common mistake to confuse the map with the territory, just as young poets want their love poems to come true, and old poets know poetry does nothing.

As long as you stop lumping mathematically viable theories in with Sasquatch and the chupacabra. One is being researched by credible scientists and the other is still very much in the realm of cryptobiology.

 

[Mole]

As long as you stop lumping mathematically viable theories in with Sasquatch and the chupacabra. One is being researched by credible scientists and the other is still very much in the realm of cryptobiology.

It seems obvious to me that just because we can describe something in mathematical terms, doesn't mean it exists.

It might be better to regard multiple universes as an hypothesis until the evidence comes in, or doesn't.

But by all means get excited by the mathematics, and keep looking for evidence, who knows, you might find it.

 

[LightSun]

We simply don't know. One can not disprove the concept of God nor disprove it. We will not have a rapture or judgment day. Time will continue marching on and each generation feeling that these are the end times. To me each religion is a hypothesis to explain the inexplicable. It does not use the scientific method nor does it collect objective fact.

It exists merely as a construct to explain the unknown. I have watched documentaries and it is shown the human species as a tendency to believe in supernatural causes. It's what our brain is telling us but our brain lies to us each and every day. It filters in and out information so no one sees reality clearly in it's entirety rather they are perceptions corrupted by one's senses, judgments, stereotypes and hidden blind spots. It has been shown eye witness testimony is unreliable.

Unfortunately with religion a hypothesis called God was developed during the bronze age. It is still readily followed. Science on the other hand grows. It develops hypothesis and theories but then revises them with more objectively proven replicated tests. The big bang is science's hypothesis of the origin of the universe. The fact is we may never know the true cause.

Quote, "If God doesn't exist then how was everything/the earth created?"
There are no causal variables that dictate A happened from B. It is all correlation and guesses none of it subjected to truth for it doesn't have reliable proof. God has yet to be discovered and he can not be measured. He does not exist in a scientific world for it utterly lacks proof.