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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    To answer your question as I usually understand it, a "God" framework would provide me with eternal consciousness and free will, two things that most people really, really want.
    Would it?
    Is the notion of "free will" truly compatible with an omnipotent God?

    Hell, merely having the belief in some God framework would vastly increase my personal utility by erasing my perpetual existential angst.
    Unless, of course, you thought you were one of the people destined for hell.
    (I can't think of a worse anxiety in life, than to expect in the back of your mind on a daily basis to spend an eternity in torment upon death.)

    In summation, it would be good if "God" existed because it would mean we are not a bunch of organic automatons hurtling toward oblivion.
    Would it actually mean that [if God exists]?

    And are we hurling towards oblivion [even if God doesn't exist]?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I think the answer is obvious: If a Christian or Muslim or whatever God does in fact exist... we get to have eternal bliss in the afterlife if we follow said religion correctly.
    If that's the case, you just have to game the system.

    And a God who actually lets people game the system isn't much of a God, is s/he?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Why is it good that God exists?
    Because God is good?

    That is what the song says.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #33
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    People are always so focused on 'eternal bliss', but I've never understood why that's appealing. Bliss is very subjective, and since Heaven is God's creation, it would mean that Heaven is God's idea of bliss, not necessarily our idea of bliss. Considering God's track record in the Christian bible, I think I'd prefer Hell. And considering that most religious texts seem to be written from man's perspective, we wouldn't know if God was secretly a sadist, or something like that, and if that were the case, God's idea of bliss could end up being a torture realm.

    Even if Heaven did end up exactly as the popular image of it is (and that still wouldn't satisfy everyone), there's no way for everyone to be eternally happy all the time unless everything that we are were gone. Someone -- don't remember who -- mentionned before that we probably wouldn't have free will, and they're right. If we stayed corporeal, which there are no guarantees for, there's no other way to make everyone comply to a strict peace policy. I suppose God could threaten to send us all to Hell if we misbehave, but doesn't that turn a world of blissful peace into a world of oppressive fear?

    Eh, there's so many ways that idea could flop, but I won't list them all. I've always had the opinion that believing in God had no benefit. I'd rather take my chances in Hell -- granted, a world of unending torture isn't exactly an ideal one, but I'd rather have my free will any day. Also, wouldn't you eventually get used to the pain? Meh. I'd wager anything that the people I'd potentially meet in Hell would be far more interesting than the people I'd meet in Heaven, in any case.

    Hm, one last thought: why would Satan willingly torture people that God doesn't like? I'd expect he'd get pleasure in swaying them from God, but to punish people because God wants them punished? Really? Hell is, after all, described from man's perspective of what God says to them. Nothing's every really told from Satan's perspective. I'd expect that, unless Satan is the most boringly predictable idiot existing, he'd come up with a better use of his time.

    /ramble
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lucifer's Avatar
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    God is only good because he says he is, there is no other opinion. People think heaven is a nice place because they were told it was, by men. Mortal men who have no clue. any person who has ever said heaven is good is alive and has never been to heaven. Heaven is a jail for people who have nor need the use for willpower to escape from it. Hell is the realm of he or she who would not give in to the wishes of others when they at least wanted the right to do as they wish.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer View Post
    Any person who has ever said heaven is good is alive and has never been to heaven.
    Really? Do you really think that is true?

    In any case, so what? No astronomer has ever been to Neptune, but that doesn't mean they can't tell you what the weather is like.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #36
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    I find it awesome that his name is Lucifer especially in the context of what he wrote lol!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Really? Do you really think that is true?

    In any case, so what? No astronomer has ever been to Neptune, but that doesn't mean they can't tell you what the weather is like.
    I think that is a completely different story, we're talking about transcending the Universe here.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lucifer's Avatar
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    Neptune physically exists and can be seen and touched. Heaven does exist, it exist in the minds of men as their sole fear, that by foolish actions of their own they will somehow be removed from whatever pleasures heaven offers. And that in itself is lustful and is a sin. if heaven does exist it is a lonely place, because the only way to get into is not think and only act through the wills of god, and that to me, is evil.
    This world is mine - in time.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    I think that is a completely different story, we're talking about transcending the Universe here.
    Heaven, if it exists, is part of the universe, albeit somewhat removed from everything else. We transcend our experience daily with our expectations, theories and assumptions--ordinary life would be impossible for a strict empiricist. If Heaven exists, even though beyond our experience, like the weather on Neptune, we can experience it through our imagination, and deduce it from our theories. Of course, our conjectures about heaven may be mistaken, but then they could also be true, and if they are true, then we have succeeded in describing the universe correctly. Very much the same is true for the astronomer who describes the weather on Neptune.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer View Post
    Neptune physically exists and can be seen and touched. Heaven does exist, it exist in the minds of men as their sole fear, that by foolish actions of their own they will somehow be removed from whatever pleasures heaven offers. And that in itself is lustful and is a sin. if heaven does exist it is a lonely place, because the only way to get into is not think and only act through the wills of god, and that to me, is evil.
    Neptune, like heaven, exists as an idea, and like the idea of Neptune, the idea of heaven might describe what is in actuality. Some think so, whereas others do not. And what of God? Perhaps there is a heaven and no God.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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