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  1. #1

    Default And if he isnt risen...

    This is something which I've spent a lot of time thinking about, I once asked in what was unfortunately a disrespectful manner which probably robbed what I was saying of any meaningfulness a Jesuit about it too, if they found "the bones of Christ" would there be any Christianity or any Christians?

    Tolstoy in his Gospel in Brief, I think it was, said that the gospels decided for him how he ought to live and questions about an afterlife were mute to him really, it was how to live now that mattered rather than what comes next or questions about eternity, I have a lot of sympathy for that position, all the scare tactics of the various evangelists about eternity where or eternity when and stuff like that, none of it phases me, none of it resonates with me at all, I care not a jot about it, I hope that love conquers death and I can meet all my ancestors and family and friends and, importantly, my dogs and goldfish which have perished already but its not a decider of my faith.

    The actual life and ministry of Jesus to me are so significant that if it were all he wrote then I think it'd be sufficient, his life, ministry and interpretation of jewish traditions, seeming negative theology but which did not deny or dismiss a supernatural dimension, all resonate strongly with me. I've read some fantastic literary takes on the tale, like Kahil Gibran's, which dont say a lot about an afterlife and resurrection.

    What is your thinking, also could you say whether or not you a believer and whether or not the whole conquered death thing is that important or not to you.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon
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  2. #2
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    It has always been about eternal life.

    The first lie satan told was "you will not surely die".

    If Christ wasn't​ resurrected that would mean there is no hope for us, and Satan would claim victory.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by wool View Post
    It has always been about eternal life.

    The first lie satan told was "you will not surely die".

    If Christ wasn't​ resurrected that would mean there is no hope for us, and Satan would claim victory.
    Hmm, I understand the idea that in Eden everyone was immortal and that mortality was a legacy of eating from the tree of knowledge, or original sin, the resurrection restores that state some how? Well, there remains mortality, whether you believe it is a weigh station between this life and another or not, so what does that suggest? Even if Satan is a despoiler I'm not sure why the persistence of mortality is a goal for him if an after life exists and souls go there.

    This perhaps makes more sense if you believe in solo scripture and scriptural literalism, which I dont.

    I also believe that "the world to come" is a state of affairs in historical time too, not just an after life, if it is indeed that and I think it is impossible to know that and investigation of or proofs for that are not guaranteed and shouldnt be sought in any case, but Jesus definitely believed that. Jesus was the original progressive, there was a sense of the future, not just the present and the past.

    Its that which is forgotten the most by most believers and non-believers when the account of Jesus life and ministry is eclipsed by talk of his miracles alone, the resurrection included.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

  4. #4
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    Because He made each of us, only the death of the Son of God could atone for the sins of all of humanity.

    Through His sacrifice, everyone on Earth has access to eternal life.

    So yes, the resurrection is important.

    Because all is vanity.
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    Classic Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Maybe at one point, my pursuit of Jesus was about the afterlife. With increasing faith though, I found strength and courage to live in a way that I wouldn't otherwise. It freed me to live my best life. I would feel good about my choices even if there death was the end of the road for me. This might be a more process-oriented way of looking at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I also believe that "the world to come" is a state of affairs in historical time too, not just an after life, if it is indeed that and I think it is impossible to know that and investigation of or proofs for that are not guaranteed and shouldnt be sought in any case, but Jesus definitely believed that. Jesus was the original progressive, there was a sense of the future, not just the present and the past.
    Sorry but can you be crystal clear about what you mean? I have no idea what you're saying.

  7. #7
    Now with less salt. apathylex's Avatar
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    *takes pop corn*
    If you need I'll be your cheerleader of trust.
    I don't think that it's so personal
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    The twisted wreckage of permanence and platonic shapes are strewn about the coasts of Galapagos.
    tiny purple fishes run laughing through your fingers
    and you want to take her with you, to the hard land of the winter

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    Quote Originally Posted by indra View Post
    The twisted wreckage of permanence and platonic shapes are strewn about the coasts of Galapagos.
    Could someone translate this for me please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wool View Post
    Could someone translate this for me please?
    It is funny that all great myths of mankind begin with a birth atypical.

    Do you feel so strongly with Christianity that you yourself are from Christ's cloth?
    tiny purple fishes run laughing through your fingers
    and you want to take her with you, to the hard land of the winter
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