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Atheists more likely to believe in superstitions

Valiant

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I think that research is bullshit. If a person is raised without a God, and don't get anything - like SCIENCE - to replace it, ofcourse he or she is going to create things to believe in, in order to explain things that he or she cannot understand.

On the other hand, if a person is atheist by choice, based on rationality, the chance of being superstitious is probably much smaller. Stupid people will always need gods and superstitions to explain things.
 

Jack Flak

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If a person is raised without a God, and don't get anything - like SCIENCE - to replace it, ofcourse he or she is going to create things to believe in, in order to explain things that he or she cannot understand.

On the other hand, if a person is atheist by choice, based on rationality, the chance of being superstitious is probably much smaller.
/thread
 

Oleander

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I can just about cope with the idea of 'God' as standing for abstract common conscience, something like Jung's 'collective unconscious' that in the past was symbolised as a personification because that's how they treated abstractions - like nobody today thinks of Justice with her scales and sword as a real super-human Person dispensing Justice but it's possible that once the less educated did.

That has nothing to do with whether anybody is superstitious or not because if atheists are more superstitious than theists then the definition of 'superstition' has been changed to exclude whatever superstitions the claimant approves of as 'religion'.

I find it very hard to believe that atheists are more superstitious than Roman Catholic or Orthodox or Hindu or Shinto or even Buddhist peasants capable of seeing visions and saints and spirits in every weird stain. I think whoever came out with this one just excludes their own personal superstition as being 'fact'.
 
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Sniffles

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If a person is raised without a God, and don't get anything - like SCIENCE - to replace it, ofcourse he or she is going to create things to believe in, in order to explain things that he or she cannot understand.

You're confusing science with scientism.

On the other hand, if a person is atheist by choice, based on rationality, the chance of being superstitious is probably much smaller.

Yeah well, the evidence suggests otherwise.


Stupid people will always need gods and superstitions to explain things.

Why are atheists so obsessed with this notion? Even if this was so, it still wouldn't disprove religious claims. It's a meaningless argument.
 

Valiant

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Those are your personal opinions, wich you personally regard as facts. Get your head straight.
 
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Sniffles

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I find it very hard to believe that atheists are more superstitious than Roman Catholic or Orthodox or Hindu or Shinto or even Buddhist peasants capable of seeing visions and saints and spirits in every weird stain.

I'll admit that many Catholics do claim such encounters, but interestingly enough it's usually more devout Catholics who call bullshit on such incidents, even claiming that such claims do only harm for the faith. I remember having such a discussion with fellow Catholics concerning an incident where people claimed to see a vision of the Virgin Mary in their freezer.
 
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Sniffles

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Those are your personal opinions, wich you personally regard as facts. Get your head straight.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice. There's a clear philosophical difference between scientism and science, and more than a few studies have confirmed the conclusions of this study. If you wish, we can even dive into the history books.
 
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Sniffles

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As for the nature of superstitions, the Catholic Encyclopedia gives a good basic outline:
There are four species of superstitions:
  • improper worship of the true God (indebitus veri Dei cultus);
  • idolatry;
  • divination;
  • vain observances, which include magic and occult arts.

This division is based upon the various ways in which religion may be vitiated by excess. Worship becomes indebitus cultus when incongruous, meaningless, improper elements are added to the proper and approved performance; it becomes idolatrous when it is offered to creatures set up as divinities or endowed with divine attributes. Divination consists in the attempt to extract from creatures, by means of religious rites, a knowledge of future events or of things known to God alone. Under the head of vain observances come all those beliefs and practices which, at least by implication, attribute supernatural or preternatural powers for good or for evil to causes evidently incapable of producing the expected effects. The number and variety of superstitions appear from the following list of those most in vogue at different periods of history:
  • astrology, the reading of the future and of man's destiny from the stars;
  • aeromancy, divinations by means of the air and winds;
  • amulets, things worn as a remedy or preservative against evils or mischief, such as diseases or witchcraft;
  • chiromancy, or palmistry, divination by the lines of the hand;
  • capnomancy, by the ascent or motion of smoke;
  • catroptomancy, by mirrors;
  • alomancy, by salt;
  • cartomancy, by playing cards;
  • anthropomancy, by inspection of human viscera;
  • belomancy, by the shuffling of arrows (Ezekiel 21:21);
  • geomancy, by points, lines or figures traced on the ground;
  • hydromancy, by water;
  • idolatry, the worship of idols;
  • Sabianism, the worship of the sun, moon, and stars;
  • Zoolatry, Anthropolatry, and Fetishism, the worship of animals, man, and things without sense;
  • Devil-worship;
  • the worship of abstract notions personified, e.g. Victory, Peace, Fame, Concord, which had temples and a priesthood for the performance of their cult;
  • necromancy, the evocation of the dead, as old as history and perpetuated in contemporary Spiritism;
  • oneiromancy, the interpretation of dreams;
  • philtres, potions, or charms intended to excite love;
  • omens or prognostics of future events;
  • witchcraft and magic in all their ramifications;
  • lucky and unlucky days, numbers, persons, things, actions;
  • the evil eye, spells, incantations, ordeals, etc.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Superstition

I like how they cite Cicero's distinction: "Superstition is the baseless fear of the gods, religion the pious worship."

Then they note St. Thomas Aquinas' distintion that "Superstition sins by excess of religion, and this differs from the vice of irreligion, which sins by defect. The theological virtue of religion stands midway between the two."

If one take the more Thomist perspective, it becomes clear how religion can be a guard against superstition while irreligion would not. Without religion, the barrier between the two extremes comes down.
 

IlyaK1986

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Catholic Encyclopedia?

Do you like to eat jumbo shrimp? Or engage in bible study also? Maybe you'd hire an idiot savant to work in your business?
 
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Sniffles

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Catholic Encyclopedia?

Do you like to eat jumbo shrimp? Or engage in bible study also? Maybe you'd hire an idiot savant to work in your business?
What does any of this have to do with the discussion, or what I posted?
 

IlyaK1986

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Because you took it from the CATHOLIC encyclopedia.

Are you that dense? Come on now!

THINK!

Wait...INFJ...should have known.

Sorry.
 

Venom

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I. Superstition (Latin superstes, standing over) is a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition

II.
Christianity:
belief not based on reason? check
belief in special significance of particular events? check

Islam:
" check
" check

Judaism:
" check
" check

Lets try a non-theistic religion, just an ideology of sorts:

Buddhim:
" check
" check

Now lets try non-ideology, just plain old superstition:

# Spilling salt is said to cause a fight or argument during the day. There are several options to "undo" this which seem to relate to various ways of acknowledging the fact that salt was spilled with others present at the scene. One way to revert this is tossing some salt over one's left shoulder with ones right hand:

belief not based on reason? check
belief in special significance of particular events? check

# At times, a horseshoe may be found above doorways. When positioned like a regular 'U' it supposedly collects luck. However, when it is positioned like an upside-down 'U' the luck supposedly drains.

belief not based on reason? check
belief in special significance of particular events? check

# If one walks underneath an open ladder it is said to bring bad luck. Sometimes it is said that this can be undone by immediately walking backwards back underneath the ladder.

belief not based on reason? check
belief in special significance of particular events? check

# Opening an umbrella indoors is said to result in 21 days of bad luck. Some traditions hold that it is only bad luck if the umbrella is placed over the head of someone while indoors.

belief not based on reason? check
belief in special significance of particular events? check


III.
you will of course object to the idea that Christianity is not based on reason.
Im not aware of any more reason to believe in the Christian God than the invisible Martian ice cream truck. If theres a special reason why Christianity is the exception of the generally accepted definition of superstition, please state why....-->


The study is a victim of the informal fallacy: special pleading.

Rule: Xs are generally Ys.
x is an X.
x is an exception to the rule because it is I (where I is an irrelevant characteristic).
Therefore, x is not a Y.

Supernatural beliefs are generally superstitions.
Religion is a supernatural belief.
You claim that Christianity is an exception (you haven't explicitly, but by using the catholic definition, its clear that their definition entails only non-Christian supernatural beliefs as superstitious) to the rule because {catholic definition of superstition}.
Therefore Christianity is not a superstition.


You have tried to gain special exception for Christianity by using the catholic definition of superstition. A definition, when used for you're argument, leads to begging the question in this context.

# it seems that according to your catholic dictionary: superstition is any activity trying to claim knowledge or power only known to God alone, or any activity that is improper worship of God
# This is not the definition the rest of the world concedes as superstition, and does not follow from any other definition that the world has conceded as superstition,
# the catholic definition of superstition is not otherwise ascribable to superstition as what we might call a “reasonable presumption” or a “default”




To review:
1. Special Pleading: what exactly makes Christianity any different than other religion or super natural ideology? Why should we make exception when deciding what is superstition? If its not obvious, then this study should of been about proving religion and not about superstitions and their exceptions.

2. Begging the Question: the catholic definition of superstition uses a premise that most do not agree is a reasonable presumption.
 
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Sniffles

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I. Superstition (Latin superstes, standing over) is a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition

Your own source admits that Catholicism condemns superstititon as a sin.

Christianity:
belief not based on reason? check

Really? One major hallmark of Christian theology is the compatibility of reason and faith.

Islam:
" check
" check

Islam maybe closer in regards to its belief in Occasionalism - ie the belief that everything that happens is simply the will of God. But even many Islamic theologians argued for Occasionalism on the basis that because God is ultimately a rational being, everything that happens is in accordance with God's rational nature.

You claim that Christianity is an exception (you haven't explicitly, but by using the catholic definition, its clear that their definition entails only non-Christian supernatural beliefs as superstitious) to the rule because {catholic definition of superstition}.

By your own admission, I have not made this argument - so in turn you're setting up a strawman. The Catholic definition is not really biased, and in fact it even cites pagan writers like Cicero - especially his statement "Superstition is the baseless fear of the gods, religion the pious worship."

So obviously the distinction between superstition and religion exists outside Christianity, not to mention predates the beginning of Christianity - Cicero after all died in 43 BC.

The Wikipedia source which you cite makes this distinctions, even citing the Catholic Catechism as showing how the Church stands against superstition. At best it states that religious beliefs are often likely to be labelled superstitious by "outsiders".
 
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