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  1. #91
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    Catholic Encyclopedia?

    Do you like to eat jumbo shrimp? Or engage in bible study also? Maybe you'd hire an idiot savant to work in your business?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Catholic Encyclopedia?

    Do you like to eat jumbo shrimp? Or engage in bible study also? Maybe you'd hire an idiot savant to work in your business?
    What does any of this have to do with the discussion, or what I posted?

  3. #93
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    Because you took it from the CATHOLIC encyclopedia.

    Are you that dense? Come on now!

    THINK!

    Wait...INFJ...should have known.

    Sorry.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Because you took it from the CATHOLIC encyclopedia.

    Are you that dense? Come on now!

    THINK!
    Ok, so you're operating on a genetic fallacy. Good to know. :rolli:

    Wait...INFJ...should have known.

    Sorry.
    Obviously profound thought is beyond your mental capabilities. Move along!

  5. #95
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    Profound thought? If you mean by philosophical epiphanies, absolutely.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  6. #96
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    That's nice, now move along and let the grown-ups do their adult talking.

  7. #97
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    ...
    would a belief in Thor be a superstition by catholic definition?

  8. #98
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    would a belief in Thor be a superstition by catholic definition?
    No, it would just be awesome. Thor is awesome. If I had to choose a God to pray to, it might be him.

  9. #99
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    I. Superstition (Latin superstes, standing over) is a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition

    II.
    Christianity:
    belief not based on reason? check
    belief in special significance of particular events? check

    Islam:
    " check
    " check

    Judaism:
    " check
    " check

    Lets try a non-theistic religion, just an ideology of sorts:

    Buddhim:
    " check
    " check

    Now lets try non-ideology, just plain old superstition:

    # Spilling salt is said to cause a fight or argument during the day. There are several options to "undo" this which seem to relate to various ways of acknowledging the fact that salt was spilled with others present at the scene. One way to revert this is tossing some salt over one's left shoulder with ones right hand:

    belief not based on reason? check
    belief in special significance of particular events? check

    # At times, a horseshoe may be found above doorways. When positioned like a regular 'U' it supposedly collects luck. However, when it is positioned like an upside-down 'U' the luck supposedly drains.

    belief not based on reason? check
    belief in special significance of particular events? check

    # If one walks underneath an open ladder it is said to bring bad luck. Sometimes it is said that this can be undone by immediately walking backwards back underneath the ladder.

    belief not based on reason? check
    belief in special significance of particular events? check

    # Opening an umbrella indoors is said to result in 21 days of bad luck. Some traditions hold that it is only bad luck if the umbrella is placed over the head of someone while indoors.

    belief not based on reason? check
    belief in special significance of particular events? check


    III.
    you will of course object to the idea that Christianity is not based on reason.
    Im not aware of any more reason to believe in the Christian God than the invisible Martian ice cream truck. If theres a special reason why Christianity is the exception of the generally accepted definition of superstition, please state why....-->


    The study is a victim of the informal fallacy: special pleading.

    Rule: Xs are generally Ys.
    x is an X.
    x is an exception to the rule because it is I (where I is an irrelevant characteristic).
    Therefore, x is not a Y.
    Supernatural beliefs are generally superstitions.
    Religion is a supernatural belief.
    You claim that Christianity is an exception (you haven't explicitly, but by using the catholic definition, its clear that their definition entails only non-Christian supernatural beliefs as superstitious) to the rule because {catholic definition of superstition}.
    Therefore Christianity is not a superstition.


    You have tried to gain special exception for Christianity by using the catholic definition of superstition. A definition, when used for you're argument, leads to begging the question in this context.

    # it seems that according to your catholic dictionary: superstition is any activity trying to claim knowledge or power only known to God alone, or any activity that is improper worship of God
    # This is not the definition the rest of the world concedes as superstition, and does not follow from any other definition that the world has conceded as superstition,
    # the catholic definition of superstition is not otherwise ascribable to superstition as what we might call a “reasonable presumption” or a “default”




    To review:
    1. Special Pleading: what exactly makes Christianity any different than other religion or super natural ideology? Why should we make exception when deciding what is superstition? If its not obvious, then this study should of been about proving religion and not about superstitions and their exceptions.

    2. Begging the Question: the catholic definition of superstition uses a premise that most do not agree is a reasonable presumption.

  10. #100
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I. Superstition (Latin superstes, standing over) is a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition
    Your own source admits that Catholicism condemns superstititon as a sin.

    Christianity:
    belief not based on reason? check
    Really? One major hallmark of Christian theology is the compatibility of reason and faith.

    Islam:
    " check
    " check
    Islam maybe closer in regards to its belief in Occasionalism - ie the belief that everything that happens is simply the will of God. But even many Islamic theologians argued for Occasionalism on the basis that because God is ultimately a rational being, everything that happens is in accordance with God's rational nature.

    You claim that Christianity is an exception (you haven't explicitly, but by using the catholic definition, its clear that their definition entails only non-Christian supernatural beliefs as superstitious) to the rule because {catholic definition of superstition}.
    By your own admission, I have not made this argument - so in turn you're setting up a strawman. The Catholic definition is not really biased, and in fact it even cites pagan writers like Cicero - especially his statement "Superstition is the baseless fear of the gods, religion the pious worship."

    So obviously the distinction between superstition and religion exists outside Christianity, not to mention predates the beginning of Christianity - Cicero after all died in 43 BC.

    The Wikipedia source which you cite makes this distinctions, even citing the Catholic Catechism as showing how the Church stands against superstition. At best it states that religious beliefs are often likely to be labelled superstitious by "outsiders".

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