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  1. #141
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    I like your style. I come up with "extreme rationalizations" on par this with occassionally, but I would not have chosen to let such a notion out into the wild.

    How about Moronicide? You could use crushed vicodin on a cheese cracker as bait to get the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

    I don't agree with the Infanticide argument. Infants have an incredible capacity for learning, and that learning starts from the moment the baby IPOs into the big bad world, possibly even a little sooner. It is that ability to learn is arguably one of the most important aspects of our cognitive ability.

  2. #142
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I like your style. I come up with "extreme rationalizations" on par this with occassionally, but I would not have chosen to let such a notion out into the wild.

    How about Moronicide? You could use crushed vicodin on a cheese cracker as bait to get the likes of Rush Limbaugh.

    I don't agree with the Infanticide argument. Infants have an incredible capacity for learning, and that learning starts from the moment the baby IPOs into the big bad world, possibly even a little sooner. It is that ability to learn is arguably one of the most important aspects of our cognitive ability.
    The standard for claiming human rights is very low. Most adult morons would have more than enough to claim them.

    Potential of infants to learn is irrelevant as that is, strictly speaking non-existent, that is what could be and not what is.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #143
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Hm, just a side remark: the value of this thread is that it treats a very strong social taboo. Hence the great amount of emotional responses (even with BW, be it irritation).

    To me it proves the validity of taboos. I still don't know if every taboo should be fought. This discussion might lead to some people thinking the taboo suppresses us, and thus that killing infants could be acceptable.

    PS: whatever your opinion on BW, one has to give him credit for finding a very strong topic
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  4. #144
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post

    To me it proves the validity of taboos.]
    You ought to explain how the occurences in this thread show that taboos are desirable.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #145
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Okay: even in your extremely rational approach, you never stated that infanticide would be in any form desirable. You do credit it with some more acceptability (only from the infant's parents' point of view), but never desirability.

    However, seen the very strong emotional reactions on your post, it appeared to be clear that people forgot about this, and reacted to you as if you do find infanticide desirable. (I even claim that these reactions lead you to leave the track of rational approach and step into the pitfall of provocation.)

    The fact that this is so hard to discuss on the rational level you wanted it to stay on, demonstrates that such a discussion is bound to end up in caricatures of people believing you to be some sort of monster and others believing you to be some kind of monster. The latter would then possibly step into cognitive dissonance and actually start to feel (yes, I know ) it is okay to commit infanticide. This -even to you- would still be a serious crime. Discussing it thus lead to misinterpreation that lead to disaster. Better to have left the subject untouched then.

    As I said: a side remark.
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  6. #146
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    Okay: even in your extremely rational approach, you never stated that infanticide would be in any form desirable. You do credit it with some more acceptability (only from the infant's parents' point of view), but never desirability.

    However, seen the very strong emotional reactions on your post, it appeared to be clear that people forgot about this, and reacted to you as if you do find infanticide desirable. (I even claim that these reactions lead you to leave the track of rational approach and step into the pitfall of provocation.)

    The fact that this is so hard to discuss on the rational level you wanted it to stay on, demonstrates that such a discussion is bound to end up in caricatures of people believing you to be some sort of monster and others believing you to be some kind of monster. The latter would then possibly step into cognitive dissonance and actually start to feel (yes, I know ) it is okay to commit infanticide. This -even to you- would still be a serious crime. Discussing it thus lead to misinterpreation that lead to disaster. Better to have left the subject untouched then.

    As I said: a side remark.
    Aha, very clear and soundly reasoned explanation.

    As you mention, I certainly do not find infanticide agreeable with my moral sentiments, though I support the legalization of such a practice because of the aforementioned pragmatic value it brings to society.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #147
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Blue Wing. I've read the first of your threads. Your reputation precedes you like an alluring late-night snack.

    I think you should get out of the house and go dancing more often. You'll never have trouble attracting partners to dance with you.

    My thought was to be entertained by the interactions here because this thread is a perfect example of something not being what it appears at first glance. Magic! You make magic happen!

    You're good, Dude. Never going to lack for conversationalists. But it's kinda hard on an INFP to watch someone willing to take such a beating for a little fun.

    Imagine I'll add my name to your list of avid readers, if not actually waltz around the floor with you.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #148
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Blue Wing. I've read the first of your threads. Your reputation precedes you like an alluring late-night snack.

    I think you should get out of the house and go dancing more often. You'll never have trouble attracting partners to dance with you.

    My thought was to be entertained by the interactions here because this thread is a perfect example of something not being what it appears at first glance. Magic! You make magic happen!

    You're good, Dude. Never going to lack for conversationalists. But it's kinda hard on an INFP to watch someone willing to take such a beating for a little fun.

    Imagine I'll add my name to your list of avid readers, if not actually waltz around the floor with you.

    Haha..the beating akin to that of hitting a tank with a tennis ball.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #149
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It is not artbitrary because there are objective methods of determing one's cognitive ability. There is a difference between seeing the world analytical, or from an intellectual standpoint, and merely acting on impulse. One becomes human whenever he begins to clearly achieve the former. Likely at 2 years old. This is when children are able to speak in full sentences and memorize the basic entities of their observations.
    Your reasoning is sound, but what about practical application? You said that the age two just happens to be the age when a human has some basic threshold of cognitive ability. What about children that speak at 9 months? What about 4 years? I infer from your earlier reasoning that it's the actual ability that should be the cut-off, not the age, correct?

    So then, who's gonna pay for doing cognitive ability tests for all children all the time to determine when they get their rights? If we didn't do these tests, we'd have extreme problems over infanticide in court cases, since the child in question would already be dead. That route seems much less efficient for our society than to just make it illegal to kill babies at any age.

    If we were to just make an age threshold, the children that talk at 9 months just get screwed. The first option is impractical, the second immoral (because murder, according to your definition, would be committed and not properly punished).

  10. #150
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Your reasoning is sound, but what about practical application? You said that the age two just happens to be the age when a human has some basic threshold of cognitive ability. What about children that speak at 9 months? What about 4 years? I infer from your earlier reasoning that it's the actual ability that should be the cut-off, not the age, correct?

    So then, who's gonna pay for doing cognitive ability tests for all children all the time to determine when they get their rights? If we didn't do these tests, we'd have extreme problems over infanticide in court cases, since the child in question would already be dead. That route seems much less efficient for our society than to just make it illegal to kill babies at any age.

    If we were to just make an age threshold, the children that talk at 9 months just get screwed. The first option is impractical, the second immoral (because murder, according to your definition, would be committed and not properly punished).
    All killing of children ought to be authorized by the state. Unauthorized killing shall be regarded as murder.

    All testing will be conducted at the expense of the legal guardian.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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