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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default On the Human condition

    Axiom: People are naturally driven towards self-affirmation. The reason for this is because we all naturally wish to feel good. Thus, as a matter of unconscious drive we do all things which we feel leads to our well being.

    It is important for us to believe that we are in good condition in order to feel good. For this reason we feel that we must know something positive about ourselves.

    There are two ways to know things. Through our own thinking, and by virtue of being informed by others.

    Most people are not able to think on their own clearly, therefore they need to be affirmed by others.

    Most people elect recognition by others as their primary goal in life.

    Society tends to send conflicting messages to people and for this reason they lack a clear notion with respect to what they must do in order to receive the affirmation. This is the case because most people informing them are not clear on the message themselves. Hence, at the very beginning we start with a communicator who is not clearly aware of what instructions to give. He does not communicate it clearly and others, due to their inability to think clearly are unable to properly understand the message he has stated.

    As a result of such confusions, his message is increasingly misunderstood as it begins to spread further.

    People behave irrationally for these two reasons. The original message was likely irrational and the confusion that has followed as a result of unsound communication has likely rendered the message even more irrational.

    Since most people are unable to think for themselves they are guided almost entirely by their interpretations of the irrational reactions they receive. For this reason they are unable to solve problems in an efficient manner and that is the primary source of the most significant problems plaguing mankind. This proposition is nearly a truism as the manifestly most sound reaction to any problem is to attempt to solve it. Since people are unable to solve such problems, they are gravely afflicted by them.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
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    True. This sounds like another ailment which can be alleviated through one year hard labor.

  3. #3
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Interesting. The outward affirmation sounds like extroverted perception (using your environment to judge yourself). Were that so, you'd be saying extroversion is the root of mankind's most significant problems. Is that what you meant?

    "People behave irrationally for these two reasons. The original message was likely irrational and the confusion that has followed as a result of unsound communication has likely rendered the message even more irrational."
    A glarring omission are the animalistic leftovers that lead us to behave "irrationally" but have nothing to do with our conscious deliberation. Also, many people don't bother with reflectiveness or deliberation. You may be assuming that mankind generally strives for understanding as their means to well-being. While that's partially true, I think most are tilted closer to food and sex as that's our primal default.

  4. #4
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    *I start reading. Someone turns the radio on. I shut the door. I continue reading. The dog wants to go out just because the door's been closed. I open then close the door behind him. I start reading from the beginning as I've forgotten what I've read. The dog scratches on the door to come back in. I open the door. I close the tab.*
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  5. #5
    Senior Member WobblyStilettos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Most people are not able to think on their own clearly
    Do you consider yourself part of this group, or do you think for yourself?
    Where you used to be, there is a hole in the world, which I find myself constantly walking around in the daytime, and falling into at night. I miss you like hell. ~Edna St. Vincent Millay

  6. #6
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    *I start reading. Someone turns the radio on. I shut the door. I continue reading. The dog wants to go out just because the door's been closed. I open then close the door behind him. I start reading from the beginning as I've forgotten what I've read. The dog scratches on the door to come back in. I open the door. I close the tab.*
    *Watches Colmena.*

    *Comes to the conclusion that Colmena is a true Humantarian. Um.*
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #7
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    There are two ways to know things. Through our own thinking, and by virtue of being informed by others.

    Most people are not able to think on their own clearly, therefore they need to be affirmed by others.
    You are right. But those two things are not at all mutually exclusive. What if, through our own thinking, we calculate that it would be beneficial to have positive relationships with people around us? Wouldn't positive affirmation, then, be a sign that we're pursuing that goal properly?

    Of course positive affirmation should not be enough. But our own thinking is not enough either. Humans are social creatures, and there is value to fitting into a social structure. Now, most social structures are a big bunch of bullshit, so maybe through our own thinking we can find/create one that makes us feel good. But we all need this affirmation from others.

    It's also important to note that clear thinking should take precedence over external affirmation.

    So I think we're in agreement, I just wanted to add that part in.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It is important for us to believe that we are in good condition in order to feel good. For this reason we feel that we must know something positive about ourselves.

    There are two ways to know things. Through our own thinking, and by virtue of being informed by others.

    Most people are not able to think on their own clearly, therefore they need to be affirmed by others.
    I think you're right, except you've mistakenly identified rational thinking (later on) with positive thinking. Thinking positive things about yourself is often a matter of comparisons, not rationality. When you think of yourself in relation to your superiors, you may feel lacking, and in relations to your inferiors, competent and accomplished. Rationality can help you see this process, but the actual process itself doesn't have to do with clear thinking or rationality.

  9. #9
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Interesting. The outward affirmation sounds like extroverted perception (using your environment to judge yourself). Were that so, you'd be saying extroversion is the root of mankind's most significant problems. Is that what you meant?

    "People behave irrationally for these two reasons. The original message was likely irrational and the confusion that has followed as a result of unsound communication has likely rendered the message even more irrational."
    A glarring omission are the animalistic leftovers that lead us to behave "irrationally" but have nothing to do with our conscious deliberation. Also, many people don't bother with reflectiveness or deliberation. You may be assuming that mankind generally strives for understanding as their means to well-being. While that's partially true, I think most are tilted closer to food and sex as that's our primal default.
    1)Rational thinking can prevent us from acting out on most important animalistic urges.

    2)Extroversion, Feeling and Sensation are the typological faculties most closely associated with relying on the external agenda for self-assessment. Extroversion by definition defines itself by the external environment. Feeling cannot be at peace with itself without being at harmony with others. And Sensation goes by what can be observed in the world of the senses and concrete occurences.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I think you're right, except you've mistakenly identified rational thinking (later on) with positive thinking. Thinking positive things about yourself is often a matter of comparisons, not rationality. When you think of yourself in relation to your superiors, you may feel lacking, and in relations to your inferiors, competent and accomplished. Rationality can help you see this process, but the actual process itself doesn't have to do with clear thinking or rationality.
    There is a very high correlation between rational thinking and positive thinking because a rational thinker's past for the most part leads him to believe he can solve his problems. At least most of the very easy ones, for an irrational person, not even that is guaranteed. Very interestingly, Jung has noted that the thinking of the Extroverted Thinking type and the Introverted Thinking is positive, yet the Thinking of an Extroverted Feeler and and Introverted Feeler negative. Generally the functions we use a lot we have a positive attitude towards because we seem to be naturally gifted with them. To be a rational thinker means to be a gifted thinker, for this reason the rational thinker will be a positive thinker to the extent that he is a rational thinker.

    The bottom line is, there is a psychological principle that when we do something well, we tend to have a positive attitude towards that activity. The primary purpose of Thinking is solving problems or acquiring knowledge on our own rationale rather than from instructions of others. Rational thinking is the hallmark of such a successful activity, therefore it is highly correlated with positive thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    You are right. But those two things are not at all mutually exclusive. What if, through our own thinking, we calculate that it would be beneficial to have positive relationships with people around us? Wouldn't positive affirmation, then, be a sign that we're pursuing that goal properly?

    Of course positive affirmation should not be enough. But our own thinking is not enough either. Humans are social creatures, and there is value to fitting into a social structure. Now, most social structures are a big bunch of bullshit, so maybe through our own thinking we can find/create one that makes us feel good. But we all need this affirmation from others.

    It's also important to note that clear thinking should take precedence over external affirmation.

    So I think we're in agreement, I just wanted to add that part in.

    Our own thinking is enough to give ourselves affirmation because that alone allows us to see if we have merit or not, irrespectively of what others think.

    Our own thinking may also quite correctly lead us to believe that we do not have merit. However, it will also allow us to see what we need to do to become meritorious. Unlike the person who is driven by societal expectations, we really will not need much to think we have enough merit to appreciate ourselves. Hence, the process of acquiring merit shall be fast and easy comparing to the arduous process of earning the approval of others.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #10
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I was wondering if the OP thought that trying to make one's self feel good about themselves through their relationships with others was a negative thing. i understand better what you are saying from your last post, BlueWing.

    I'd go so far as to say that "the arduous process of earning the approval of others" not only is arduous but an empty exercise in fluffing one's own ego and will result in the "imposter syndrome."

    It goes like this, "Hah. I've got everybody fooled into thinking I'm a good, smart, whatever person. Why do I still feel so empty and unhappy?"
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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