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  1. #41
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    And again rationality is subjective to motivation, purpose, and interpretation.

    Some of the greatest achievements have been made through trial and error.

    It is in such boxes that reason losses all meaning.
    Trial and error works best when we carefully analyze our previous mistakes to see what they were, and carefully plan out (through rational contemplation) what our next trial should be.

    Definition of rationality is objective, motivation for rationality, as is the case for all motivation (why someone would want to be rational) is indeed subjective.

    Read up. rationality definition |Dictionary.com
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #42
    ThatGirl
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    So the logical thinking does not minimize mistakes but the repeating of mistakes, I would agree to that.

    But again a mistake would be open for interpretation on the larger scale

    Bluewing I would like to know what rationality means to you specifically through your interpretation?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    So the logical thinking does not minimize mistakes but the repeating of mistakes, I would agree to that.


    Bluewing I would like to know what rationality means to you specifically through your interpretation?
    Your point was that the trial and error technique often leads to best results. I argued that logical thinking is a desirable supplement to the trial and error technique. This is not relevant to whether or not logical thinking can prevent mistake. It can because logical thinking allows us to see how things work. This way, knowing how things work we will avoid mistakes without prior experience with the activity.

    Rationality consists in being logically consistent and founding the argument on observable premises. In other words, knowing how the world works and being able to support it with rigorous logical argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    But again a mistake would be open for interpretation on the larger scale?
    Indeed every logical proposition is considered strictly within the context it is in. However, this does not undermine the objectivity of logic itself because all logical propositions could be put in the context where an objective view of them is achieved.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #44
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I argued that logical thinking is a desirable supplement to the trial and error technique.
    Same thing basically. Unless you succeed the first time, logical thinking will lead to trial and error. And trial and error cannot be done without logical thinking.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Same thing basically. Unless you succeed the first time, logical thinking will lead to trial and error. And trial and error cannot be done without logical thinking.
    Indeed, no thinking can be done bypass logical thinking. One who is not adept at logical thinking, will inevitably engage in poor logical thinking. This is often the case with dom F types whose Thinking function is unconscious. They unconsciously form absurd beliefs about the world and their experiences interacting with it. As a matter of truism, we inevitably form conceptions of how the world is, soundly or unsoundly, this is necessarily the use of logical thinking. Logical thinking is a redundancy, as thinking could only be logical.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #46
    ThatGirl
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    I think that you are confusing intelligence and motivation with logic.

    One can choose to tread lightly and that would be logical because it minimizes mistakes.

    One can choose to forge ahead for the purpose of advancement and that would be logical to the goal since they can take the hits.

    One can say that person feels bad and I dont want them to and plot a way to avoid pain because it makes sense to the goal.

    All these are logical in context to personal motivation and interpretation.

    I think we all assess what we are capable of dealing with and use logic to counteract our weaknesses.



    Self affirmation. aka human behavior

  7. #47
    ThatGirl
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    Your point was that the trial and error technique often leads to best results. I argued that logical thinking is a desirable supplement to the trial and error technique.
    No I was saying that trial and error is not without its significance

    As a matter of truism, we inevitably form conceptions of how the world is, soundly or unsoundly, this is necessarily the use of logical thinking
    Everyone does this

  8. #48
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I think that you are confusing intelligence and motivation with logic.

    One can choose to tread lightly and that would be logical because it minimizes mistakes.

    One can choose to forge ahead for the purpose of advancement and that would be logical to the goal since they can take the hits.

    One can say that person feels bad and I dont want them to and plot a way to avoid pain because it makes sense to the goal.

    All these are logical in context to personal motivation and interpretation.

    I think we all assess what we are capable of dealing with and use logic to counteract our weaknesses.



    Self affirmation. aka human behavior
    Whats the relevance of this to my posts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    No I was saying that trial and error is not without its significance



    Everyone does this
    We appear to be entirely on the same page with respect to this point.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #49
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Whats the relevance of this to my posts?



    We appear to be entirely on the same page with respect to this point.
    There is no illogical or irrational when it comes to perception and behavior.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    There is no illogical or irrational when it comes to perception and behavior.

    When you do all things, meaning behavior and perception are part of them, you harbor unconscious desires. They are best fulfilled if you have a clear view of what they are and the most efficient way to fulfill them. This requires logical thinking. Thus what conduces to their fulfillment is rational, what does not is irrational.

    For example. Take the case of a driver who is stranded in the middle of nowhere. He is confused about what to do and is just scrambling around. Obviously the thing to do in his best interest is to find a way to get out of that situation quickly. Because he is not doing so, he is being irrational.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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