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  1. #141
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Finite by definition means 'limited'. When something has a limit, it means that something exists outside of it. There is no reason to say something is limited if nothing exists outside of it. Would there be any reason at all to talk of city limits, state limits, or nation limits if the territory we have in consideration occupies all things?
    @Bolded statement -- wrong. You will find zero professors that agree with that statement, dude.

    If you want to use a definition no one else uses, fine, you're right. But we're not talking about the same thing.

    How could there be TWO infinites if an infinite by definition is not countable.
    Wrong again. Look up "countable" please. Infinities can be countable. Take a discrete math class?

    That is the definition of finitude, capable of being counted.
    No again. Take some classes.

    Again, if you want to use definitions no one else uses, go ahead. We're not talking about the same thing then. We're not disagreeing then.

    I better take my trip to the Ni world. I sure hope there I find out it is possible to decrease what is not measurable. As after all, if I had more of a Feel, it would all work out, as its all qualitative not quantitive, matter of feel aint it Evan?

    Such picturesque sight!

    Yeah keep it real though, you're my only true hero! I heartily agree with you that all things could indeed be finite. You know, they just all came out of nowhere, like a hickory oak just appears in my backyard completely uncaused. You made a believer out of me, maybe black magic is not such a bad idea, perhaps it shall teleport me to the Ni world where I see it all, my sacred longings will be fulfilled at last.

    Goodness, physics, math, astrophysics? What about common-sense!?
    You're the one being an F here.

  2. #142
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    And I see no reason to reject the concept of creation ex nihilo as logically inconsistent.

    ???
    1)Infinity-As aforementioned, by definition has no limits. Therefore, it is not possible for us to have a conception of anything that is infinite. We can only have a symbol for an infinity but not a direct representation thereof. Exactly like in Kant we get that all we know about the noumenal world is that it exists, but not any particular thing about it.

    Here again, is the reason why, an entity that is unbounded (which is infinite by definition) will occupy all things, simply because there is nothing to prevent it from doing so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    And I see no reason to reject the concept of creation ex nihilo as logically inconsistent.???
    The onus is on you to prove that it is plausible to believe that nothing can come from nothing because otherwise the principle of existence cannot be justified which is a truism. Unless of course you're dissonance and common-sense has no bearing upon your thinking.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #143
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    @Bolded statement -- wrong. You will find zero professors that agree with that statement, dude.

    If you want to use a definition no one else uses, fine, you're right. But we're not talking about the same thing.?.
    Right, its only in the dictionary. Noone uses it. Welcome to Ni world.






    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    @Wrong again. Look up "countable" please. Infinities can be countable. Take a discrete math class?.
    countable definition |Dictionary.com

    See the referrence to 'finite' in definition 2/mathematics.


    Again, in finite ( the definition I cited) countable is used as a synonymous term as finite. Here in this definition of infinite, infinite is used in synonymous manner with non-countable.


    infinite definition |Dictionary.com
    Definition 1 (immeasurable)
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #144
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    1)Infinity-As aforementioned, by definition has no limits.
    NO

    Learn the words you're talking about please.

    If you want to make those assertions, use different words.

    Infinity has meaning. You aren't using that meaning. Use a different term.

  5. #145
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    NO

    Learn the words you're talking about please.

    If you want to make those assertions, use different words.

    Infinity has meaning. You aren't using that meaning. Use a different term.
    Are you reading the dictionary entries!? This is getting more amusing each entry you make.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #146
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    some random bullshit that doesn't correspond to anything in the academic world
    "b. (of a set) having elements that form a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers; denumerable; enumerable."

    One to one correspondence WITH THE NATURAL NUMBERS. THE NATURAL NUMBERS ARE INFINITE.

    YOU LOSE.

  7. #147
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    "b. (of a set) having elements that form a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers; denumerable; enumerable."

    One to one correspondence WITH THE NATURAL NUMBERS. THE NATURAL NUMBERS ARE INFINITE.

    YOU LOSE.
    To denumerate something with a natural numbers means to do so with each particular number or a clearly measurable (finite). Not the whole set. This fragment you have quoted is not talking about the whole set but about operations with regard to each natural number or each particular set of such numbers. Do you ever feel like you're Alice in Wonderland living in the world you live in?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #148
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    To denumerate something with a natural numbers means to do so with each particular number. Not the whole set. This fragment you have quoted is not talking about the whole set. Do you ever feel like you're Alice in Wonderland living in the world you live in?
    LOL.

    Take discrete math. You clearly don't understand what you're talking about.

    Do you know what "uncountable" means in math? It sure as hell does not mean infinite.

    I'm done. You're completely ignorant to mathematical concepts. Hopefully someone else will come in and help me out, because I'm over it.

    Goodnight.

  9. #149
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    LOL.

    Take discrete math. You clearly don't understand what you're talking about.

    Do you know what "uncountable" means in math? It sure as hell does not mean infinite.

    I'm done. You're completely ignorant to mathematical concepts. Hopefully someone else will come in and help me out, because I'm over it.

    Goodnight.
    You a real a winner! Enlighten me my dear sir! I long for the Ni world!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #150
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    "In mathematics, an uncountable set is an infinite set which is too big to be countable. The uncountability of a set is closely related to its cardinal number: a set is uncountable if its cardinal number is larger than that of the natural numbers. The related term nondenumerable set is used by some authors as a synonym for "uncountable set" while other authors define a set to be nondenumerable if it is not an infinite countable set."
    -http://wapedia.mobi/en/uncountable


    "Some sets are infinite; these sets have more than n elements for any integer n. For example, the set of natural numbers, denotable by <math>\{ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, \dots \}</math>, has infinitely many elements, and we can't use any normal number to give its size. Nonetheless, it turns out that infinite sets do have a well-defined notion of size (or more properly, of cardinality, which is the technical term for the number of elements in a set), and not all infinite sets have the same cardinality.

    To understand what this means, we must first examine what it doesn't mean. For example, there are infinitely many odd integers, infinitely many even integers, and (hence) infinitely many integers overall. However, it turns out that the number of odd integers, which is the same as the number of even integers, is also the same as the number of integers overall. This is because we arrange things such that for every integer, there is a distinct odd integer: ?2 ? -3, ?1 ? ?1, 0 ? 1, 1 ? 3, 2 ? 5, ; or, more generally, n ? 2n + 1. What we have done here is arranged the integers and the odd integers into a one-to-one correspondence (or bijection), which is a function that maps between two sets such that each element of each set corresponds to a single element in the other set.

    However, not all infinite sets have the same cardinality. For example, Georg Cantor (who introduced this branch of mathematics) demonstrated that the real numbers cannot be put into one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers (non-negative integers), and therefore that the set of real numbers has a greater cardinality than the set of natural numbers.

    A set is countable if: (1) it is finite, or (2) it has the same cardinality (size) as the set of natural numbers. Equivalently, a set is countable if it has the same cardinality as some subset of the set of natural numbers. Otherwise, it is uncountable."

    -http://wapedia.mobi/en/countable

    Again, a set is countable if it has a one to one correspondence with the natural numbers. For example, multiples of 7 are countable because you can come up with a formula which corresponds that set with the set of natural numbers. Both sets are infinite, but they are, by definition, countable.

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