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Spirituality Without Religion.

Gypsy-Flux

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I grew up in the RCC, and always understood "faith without works" to be the Catholic perspective, while Protestants emphasized the need to do good works. We were taught that it is only by God's grace--completely unmerited by works--that one is saved.

uh, that's completely backwards dude. I grew up in a family where one half was Catholic and the other evangelical. I can't begin to tell you how tiresome it was to hear (the evangelical side) always going on about salvation by faith alone, and how catholics are wrong about good works also being important, blah, blah...

Sola Fide is pretty much one of the crucial tenets of protestantism...
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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yeah, when I went through Lutheran Catechism, it pushes faith first as the means to salvation, and works were merely a reflection of one being saved. This was a big diff between him and Catholicism of the time.

For Martin Luther, the place of good works in the everyday life of a Christian was to be found within the context of righteousness, justification, and grace. Essentially, works were not to be viewed, in any way, shape, or form, as the means to justification and grace. The only way one can achieve righteousness, according to Luther, is through faith. Indeed, the pursuit of good works as the means to salvation could be as detrimental to grace as ignorance of sin. Good works, however, are not totally discounted in value by Martin Luther....

Luther on Good Works


Also, to frame Luther's contribution:

Salvation Before the Protestant Reformation | Our Everyday Life

Salvation is the forgiveness of sins, or evil deeds, and a requirement for a Christian to be reconciled with God. Without this reconciliation, a person cannot enter heaven upon death. The Catholic Church, the only Christian religion before the Protestant Reformation began in 1517, taught during the medieval age that followers could achieve salvation through a variety of means. Grace, faith, good works and indulgences were all ways to become one again with God. This Catholic hegemony over Christian thinking ended when Martin Luther, a German cleric, questioned this multiplicity of routes to salvation in his 95 Thesis, which he nailed to a church door in Wittenberg, Germany, in 1517. In this work, Luther challenged church doctrine on salvation by arguing that only faith in God could save a soul from eternal damnation. This challenge became the impetus for the Protestant Reformation that ended the Catholic monopoly on Christian theology.

obviously that paragraph seems to favor Protestantism, but anyway I'm not sure where things stand now in the denominations 500 years and a continent away from that moment in time.

Evangelicalism generates a glaring defect based on this philosophy: Essentially if you espouse to the right doctrine, it can make up for being a complete schlunk in terms of carrying out "good works" -- i.e., if you have a doctrinal disagreement with someone, they are wrong, and if you "believe the right truths" then you can justify a lot of heinous attitudes towards people. This is why other religions are viewed as sinners and deniers of God even if they live better lives than the Evangelical. At the same time, there are many who view the faith as about rules. if you are in a same-sex relationship, for example, you're not a believer. If you are pro-choice, you are not really a believer. if you don't tithe a certain amount or attend church a certain number of times a month, you're not really a believer. And so forth. it's weird. If you vote the "wrong way" or for the "wrong" party, then you are not really a believer.

Not everyone is this way obviously, but it's a noticeable flaw I've seen from the inside for years on end.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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I used to belong to a formal religion and did put labels on my individual experience based on that. Now that I've let go of those labels, I do feel like I've mostly maintained my inner spirituality, but it isn't based on anything externally structured by someone else. It is based on two types of meditative experiences.

The first is the experience of being alone and connecting with nature. I have done this since I was 13 years old and my soul withers when I don't have a place I can go on a daily basis to regenerate in this way. I just sit alone in the quiet, away from all other humans, and just look around. What happens is that a deep, possibly infinite, beauty emerges. Suddenly all of the colors become brighter, I become aware of every one of my senses and in some way everything feels like part of the whole. I remember as a teenager sitting on the edge of a wheat field, looking at the sea of gold under an azure sky, and hearing the birds chirping a two note melody, and i felt the warmth of the sun and a cool breeze on my face. It was as though all of reality was simplified to this duality, and there aren't words to define it, but there was a feeling of comprehension. In this state I come to understand what compassion is when I don't feel I have any left, I become aware of feeling connected, I feel a sense of the fleetingness of reality along with a glimpse of eternity. I feel incredibly small, but somehow seen, and incredibly safe. In this state i see everything that was a void in the rush and confusion of daily interaction with everyone.

A second type of meditative state has to do with sensory deprivation, and I experience it in the dark, in warm water, and in silence. I close my eyes, imagine myself letting go of everything as I fall into an infinite, black abyss. In this state I get really intense imaginings that seem to compensate for whatever is lacking in life. During a healing process for myself, I could envision powerful metaphors where I could see myself healing. In one I'm on an alien planet, sitting in a pool of water, and completely and perfectly alone in a feeling of soul soothing. When intensely fearful for the life of a friend of mine, and someone whose plight leaves me feeling completely powerless, I reached out my intention into the blackness of the void and after a while I heard millions of voices chanting with me. It is difficult to explain exactly the sound, but it is a little like the sound of the Tardis from Doctor Who, except that it is an ongoing chanting. It felt like I was momentarily connected to all life and intention in the universe, that it heard me, and focused its intention in the direction I was focusing mine for the safety of my friend and for the elimination of the source of her harm. It feels like there is something ancient in the universe, much older than what we think of as darkness and "evil". It felt like that is a young occurrence and that is something very ancient, patient, wise, something that feels similar to the way a forest of trees feel, but not trees, but something beyond words that has wisdom and awareness and can be called upon. I call it the "Dark Trees".

I do not relate to these experiences as "facts" or even "truths" or anything that is useful to put into words or try to define. They are states of consciousness that are experienced in my being for whatever the reason. I don't have to know what it is. I don't have to find words to define it or set it inside a structure of philosophy or belief. It helps me to regain whatever I have lost It helps me to feel a connection and gives a source of hope. I don't have to know more than that.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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uh, that's completely backwards dude. I grew up in a family where one half was Catholic and the other evangelical. I can't begin to tell you how tiresome it was to hear (the evangelical side) always going on about salvation by faith alone, and how catholics are wrong about good works also being important, blah, blah...

Sola Fide is pretty much one of the crucial tenets of protestantism...
That was my strong impression growing up - that Catholics prayed alot and observed the holy days and rituals, but it was the Protestants out in the community actually helping those in need. I suppose it could have been more "folk wisdom" reflecting the situation in my area rather than official doctrine. I found application/interpretation of official doctrine varied significantly from parish to parish.
 

kotoshinohaisha

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I'm a Christian.. So spirituality got his own religion for me.. As well, hmm.. I have this personal relationship with God.. But as said in the Bible, no man is an island.. Which is actually true. So a fellowship is needed.. But sometimes i find it hard to be in a fellowship xD hahaha. I feel that im too evil? Or i feel like they're too righteous!? XD or.. Whatever.. Doing it alone makes me lazy.. Well, i had friends before who lead me to Christianity, it's fun worshipping with friends but when you do it alone it's not. [emoji14]

I mean, i hate people generally. XD like, hmmm.. I don't wanna be imposed or something. I just do what i want.. Sometimes churches wants loyalty.. It seems like they're not that open with well, i don't know.. XD it feels like you have to go to church like it's a duty. Well, i don't wanna feel like it's a duty.. I wanna go to church because i want to.. Thats what i wanna do. Not because I'm just forced to do it.

Church people should not force people to go to church only because it's required.. Let them go because it's what their heart and soul wants.. Not what the church wants.. I don't have religion btw. XD I'm not part of any group and I'm a lonewolf
 

Thisica

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Labels (and misuse of scientific knowledge)

I used to belong to a formal religion and did put labels on my individual experience based on that. Now that I've let go of those labels, I do feel like I've mostly maintained my inner spirituality, but it isn't based on anything externally structured by someone else. It is based on two types of meditative experiences.

The first is the experience of being alone and connecting with nature. I have done this since I was 13 years old and my soul withers when I don't have a place I can go on a daily basis to regenerate in this way. I just sit alone in the quiet, away from all other humans, and just look around. What happens is that a deep, possibly infinite, beauty emerges. Suddenly all of the colors become brighter, I become aware of every one of my senses and in some way everything feels like part of the whole. I remember as a teenager sitting on the edge of a wheat field, looking at the sea of gold under an azure sky, and hearing the birds chirping a two note melody, and i felt the warmth of the sun and a cool breeze on my face. It was as though all of reality was simplified to this duality, and there aren't words to define it, but there was a feeling of comprehension. In this state I come to understand what compassion is when I don't feel I have any left, I become aware of feeling connected, I feel a sense of the fleetingness of reality along with a glimpse of eternity. I feel incredibly small, but somehow seen, and incredibly safe. In this state i see everything that was a void in the rush and confusion of daily interaction with everyone.

A second type of meditative state has to do with sensory deprivation, and I experience it in the dark, in warm water, and in silence. I close my eyes, imagine myself letting go of everything as I fall into an infinite, black abyss. In this state I get really intense imaginings that seem to compensate for whatever is lacking in life. During a healing process for myself, I could envision powerful metaphors where I could see myself healing. In one I'm on an alien planet, sitting in a pool of water, and completely and perfectly alone in a feeling of soul soothing. When intensely fearful for the life of a friend of mine, and someone whose plight leaves me feeling completely powerless, I reached out my intention into the blackness of the void and after a while I heard millions of voices chanting with me. It is difficult to explain exactly the sound, but it is a little like the sound of the Tardis from Doctor Who, except that it is an ongoing chanting. It felt like I was momentarily connected to all life and intention in the universe, that it heard me, and focused its intention in the direction I was focusing mine for the safety of my friend and for the elimination of the source of her harm. It feels like there is something ancient in the universe, much older than what we think of as darkness and "evil". It felt like that is a young occurrence and that is something very ancient, patient, wise, something that feels similar to the way a forest of trees feel, but not trees, but something beyond words that has wisdom and awareness and can be called upon. I call it the "Dark Trees".

I do not relate to these experiences as "facts" or even "truths" or anything that is useful to put into words or try to define. They are states of consciousness that are experienced in my being for whatever the reason. I don't have to know what it is. I don't have to find words to define it or set it inside a structure of philosophy or belief. It helps me to regain whatever I have lost It helps me to feel a connection and gives a source of hope. I don't have to know more than that.

That's how I think anyway about topics of 'religion' and/or 'spirituality'. I find such labels useless for describing what I do. I live - with both its scary and wonderfulness - and that's all. I have been caught up in 'wyrd' experiences, which still occur out of my control (though fortunately am less scared of them - if you want to know, PM me, by the way.). Yet I never considered these experiences to have any empirical implication. They're just are so, just like any other event in my unique life.

On a different note: It pains me when people have to misuse scientific jargon to support their ideas about phenomena which can't be understood in that way, anyway... :mad: It took me a long time not to literalise my story-telling about what happened then :(
 
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