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  1. #41
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Psychologically, our behavior is motivated by our desire to experience pleasure and avoid experiencing pain.

    ...

    If everyone looked at what is really pleasurable and what causes pain in their lives, and changed according to what they've found, people would be happier.
    What if the search for pleasure is what causes pain?

  2. #42
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    What do you all think about this issue?
    I'm not very good at hedonism (due to my weak awareness of my senses and such), and find it scary, as well as hazardous to my health and my reputation. Why would I want to indulge in it?

  3. #43
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    What if the search for pleasure is what causes pain?
    Then the hope or promise of pleasure must in their minds be worth enduring the pain.

  4. #44
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post

    Every act we perform is selfish, for instance if donating to charities didn't make people feel good they wouldn't do it.
    Not the same thing. Hedonism is a "me first" mentality. Trampling on another to attain your pleasure isn't out of the question. Donating to a charity and finding pleasure in giving is not a negative thing. Correlating it to hedonism is silly.

  5. #45
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Not the same thing. Hedonism is a "me first" mentality. Trampling on another to attain your pleasure isn't out of the question. Donating to a charity and finding pleasure in giving is not a negative thing. Correlating it to hedonism is silly.
    Correlating it to hedonism is correct.

    No matter how hard you try, you can't give me a scenario of a common human action and not be able to attach pleasure/pain to it to some degree.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Huh?

    How is there no foreseeability in human behavior if you assume they do everything to maximize pleasure and reduce pain?
    If A then B or C or D or E or F or G or H or I or J or K or L or M or N or O or P or Q or S or T or U or V or W or X or Y or Z.
    I don't wanna!

  7. #47
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No matter how hard you try, you can't give me a scenario of a common human action and not be able to attach pleasure/pain to it to some degree.
    Well, I agree and that's life. Cause/effect. To any action you'll experience a degree of pleasure or pain. How are you defining hedonism though? If you do something good for someone else, which in turn brings a sense of self satisfaction, does that make you a hedonist?

    Hedonism is defined as sensual self-indulgence. Self-indulgence is a negative thing because it leaves little room for the consideration of others. There are greedy hypocrites who drown in their own pursuit for pleasure, and maybe seek redemption through giving to charities - this makes them "feel" better about themself; then you have "good people" who genuinely want to look out for the best interest of others. Are these two types of one and the same? I think not.

  8. #48
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Well, I agree and that's life. Cause/effect. To any action you'll experience a degree of pleasure or pain. How are you defining hedonism though? If you do something good for someone else, which in turn brings a sense of self satisfaction, does that make you a hedonist?

    Hedonism is defined as sensual self-indulgence. Self-indulgence is a negative thing because it leaves little room for the consideration of others. There are greedy hypocrites who drown in their own pursuit for pleasure, and maybe seek redemption through giving to charities - this makes them "feel" better about themself; then you have "good people" who genuinely want to look out for the best interest of others. Are these two types of one and the same? I think not.
    The argument is that psychologically we are already hedonists, but ethically, not everyone embraces, what, essentially, they already are.

  9. #49
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I actually made a thread similar to this a while back. Check it out:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-its-root.html

  10. #50
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Jeffster's response was more succinct, and therefore better...but, you know this is ridiculous, right? If everyone subscribed to the same reasons for doing everything, including all the mutually exclusive things, there would be even less assurance (than the little we currently have) that people's motives and resulting decisions take the form of cause and effect relationships. There would be no foreseeability in human behavior. Implications: no philosophy, no trust, no relationships, no economy, no society, etc.
    It wouldn't matter if everyone consciously subscribed to the same reasons for doing everything, because on a base level, we already are.

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