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  1. #31
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    What drives them to do it?
    Tradition, duty, obligation. It's the "right" thing to do. Not because it gives them any satisfaction or pleasure, it's just what you do.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  2. #32
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Tradition, duty, obligation. It's the "right" thing to do. Not because it gives them any satisfaction or pleasure, it's just what you do.
    If they didn't fulfill their tradition, duty...this would cause displeasure, it could make them unhappy...which is why they do it.

    Hedonism is also about avoiding any pain.

  3. #33
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    No, they really don't. There are people that hate it but do it anyway. I'm not making this up, I know many people like this. There's a lot of them. Several of them were probably your school teachers. Some might have been your boss. They're out there!
    If you'd read the thread you'd see that this has already been discussed.

    While it may not be very similar to the sort of pleasure pursued by those who consider themselves hedonists, there is some level of pleasure seeking involved in compliance to social norms and charitable conduct.

    They obviously believe that the difficulty caused to them by the breaking of these norms and responsibilities would outweigh the benefits of their freedom from them.

    It's not only difficult to conceive a situation where someone would act entirely selflessly, it could be impossible.
    wails from the crypt.

  4. #34
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    *sigh*

    I've had this exact same conversation with my brother, and we came to the same empasse. It seems to be something that NTs can't grasp because it's so illogical. But many of the SJ folks really don't fulfill "duties" to seek pleasure or to avoid pain. It really is just because they feel it is what they have to do. It's just who they are.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

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  5. #35
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    *sigh*

    I've had this exact same conversation with my brother, and we came to the same empasse. It seems to be something that NTs can't grasp because it's so illogical. But many of the SJ folks really don't fulfill "duties" to seek pleasure or to avoid pain. It really is just because they feel it is what they have to do. It's just who they are.
    YES. it really comes down to who's valuation judgment is correct and theres plenty of times when your behavior doesn't conform to a specific spot on the pleasure-pain continuum, either in the present or future.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #36
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    "You are looking, sir, at a very dull survival of a very gaudy life—crippled, paralyzed in both legs, very little I can eat, and my sleep is so near waking that it’s hardly worth the name. I seem to exist largely on heat, like a newborn spider. The orchids are an excuse for the heat. Do you like orchids?"
    I don't wanna!

  7. #37
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    *sigh*

    I've had this exact same conversation with my brother, and we came to the same empasse. It seems to be something that NTs can't grasp because it's so illogical. But many of the SJ folks really don't fulfill "duties" to seek pleasure or to avoid pain. It really is just because they feel it is what they have to do. It's just who they are.
    They are unaware of the reasons for what they do, but they are still doing it for pleasure/less pain.
    wails from the crypt.

  8. #38
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    They are unaware of the reasons for what they do, but they are still doing it for pleasure/less pain.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  9. #39
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    They are unaware of the reasons for what they do, but they are still doing it for pleasure/less pain.
    Jeffster's response was more succinct, and therefore better...but, you know this is ridiculous, right? If everyone subscribed to the same reasons for doing everything, including all the mutually exclusive things, there would be even less assurance (than the little we currently have) that people's motives and resulting decisions take the form of cause and effect relationships. There would be no foreseeability in human behavior. Implications: no philosophy, no trust, no relationships, no economy, no society, etc.
    I don't wanna!

  10. #40
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Huh?

    How is there no foreseeability in human behavior if you assume they do everything to maximize pleasure and reduce pain?

    The entire law system is based on punishing people with inconvenience, isn't that indicative of our understanding that the only way to stop people from doing things is to make the inconvenience resulting from the action greater than the benefit of the action?
    wails from the crypt.

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