Why everyone should embrace hedonism.

[murkrow]

Sure there might have been some pleasure he experienced surrounding his suicide, but it would probably be out weighed by the pain he felt, which caused his suicide in the first place.

Whether his suicide was inspired by pain or loyalty is undefined (and undefinable?)

And this would be thanks to religion, which can prevent people from realizing their hedonistic potential.

Is raising the ceiling for allowable pleasure really going to make people more pleased?

Relativity seems to counter this idea pretty easily.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I'm afraid I can't provie the stuides right now, but it's actually been well recored that hedonistic living usually causes depression.

For human's, happiness is usually generated by a concept of worth, not pleasural sensations. This is why feeling loved, being proud of work, and yes, believing in a religion, makes people happier on average. These things create a sense of value.

 

[swordpath]

Hedonism is selfishness. I wouldn't embrace it and would look down on anyone that claims it.

 

[ajblaise]

I'm afraid I can't provie the stuides right now, but it's actually been well recored that hedonistic living usually causes depression.

For human's, happiness is usually generated by a concept of worth, not pleasural sensations. This is why feeling loved, being proud of work, and yes, believing in a religion, makes people happier on average. These things create a sense of value.

There's lots of literature on religion causing depression:
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/09/05/religion-may-contribute-to-adolescent-depression/2880.html
Religion, depression and suicide
Religion and Depression - How Christian-Fatalism Leads to Despair


Hedonism is all about happiness and pleasure, how could this make you unhappy? If self-worth makes you happy, then pursuing it would be hedonistic.

Hedonism is selfishness. I wouldn't embrace it and would look down on anyone that claims it.

Every act we perform is selfish, for instance if donating to charities didn't make people feel good they wouldn't do it.

 

[Jeffster]

Every act we perform is selfish, for instance if donating to charities didn't make people feel good they wouldn't do it.

Aww, how can you say that here on a website that's all based on personality types? You're wrong. There are really some people who donate to charities because they believe it is their duty to do so, and have no strong feeling for it one way or the other.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Hedonism is all about happiness and pleasure, how could this make you unhappy? If self-worth makes you happy, then pursuing it would be hedonistic.

It in pratice, it is really just a process of seeking pleasure, and plesaure does not creat happiness, no matter how much you've driven the idea into your head that it does. I think we've all had moments when we were pleasuring ourselves in a state of depression, and it did no good whatsoever. Likewise, I have been happy at moments that were also quite painful. Happiness goes beyond such indulgences.

 

[ajblaise]

Aww, how can you say that here on a website that's all based on personality types? You're wrong. There are really some people who donate to charities because they believe it is their duty to do so, and have no strong feeling for it one way or the other.

If they feel it's a duty, then they will get satisfaction/pleasure from fulfilling the duty, obviously.

It's really hard for anyone to come up with a scenario where humans perform an action and pleasure/pain is not involved.

 

[ajblaise]

It in pratice, it is really just a process of seeking pleasure, and plesaure does not creat happiness, no matter how much you've driven the idea into your head that it does. I think we've all had moments when we were pleasuring ourselves in a state of depression, and it did no good whatsoever. Likewise, I have been happy at moments that were also quite painful. Happiness goes beyond such indulgences.

Happiness is a synonym for pleasure.

 

[Jeffster]

If they feel it's a duty, then they will get satisfaction/pleasure from fulfilling the duty, obviously.

No, they really don't. There are people that hate it but do it anyway. I'm not making this up, I know many people like this. There's a lot of them. Several of them were probably your school teachers. Some might have been your boss. They're out there!

 

[ajblaise]

No, they really don't. There are people that hate it but do it anyway. I'm not making this up, I know many people like this. There's a lot of them. Several of them were probably your school teachers. Some might have been your boss. They're out there!

What drives them to do it?

 

[Jeffster]

What drives them to do it?

Tradition, duty, obligation. It's the "right" thing to do. Not because it gives them any satisfaction or pleasure, it's just what you do.

 

[ajblaise]

Tradition, duty, obligation. It's the "right" thing to do. Not because it gives them any satisfaction or pleasure, it's just what you do.

If they didn't fulfill their tradition, duty...this would cause displeasure, it could make them unhappy...which is why they do it.

Hedonism is also about avoiding any pain.

 

[murkrow]

No, they really don't. There are people that hate it but do it anyway. I'm not making this up, I know many people like this. There's a lot of them. Several of them were probably your school teachers. Some might have been your boss. They're out there!

If you'd read the thread you'd see that this has already been discussed.

While it may not be very similar to the sort of pleasure pursued by those who consider themselves hedonists, there is some level of pleasure seeking involved in compliance to social norms and charitable conduct.

They obviously believe that the difficulty caused to them by the breaking of these norms and responsibilities would outweigh the benefits of their freedom from them.

It's not only difficult to conceive a situation where someone would act entirely selflessly, it could be impossible.

 

[Jeffster]

*sigh*

I've had this exact same conversation with my brother, and we came to the same empasse. It seems to be something that NTs can't grasp because it's so illogical. But many of the SJ folks really don't fulfill "duties" to seek pleasure or to avoid pain. It really is just because they feel it is what they have to do. It's just who they are.

 

[Simplexity]

*sigh*

I've had this exact same conversation with my brother, and we came to the same empasse. It seems to be something that NTs can't grasp because it's so illogical. But many of the SJ folks really don't fulfill "duties" to seek pleasure or to avoid pain. It really is just because they feel it is what they have to do. It's just who they are.

YES. it really comes down to who's valuation judgment is correct and theres plenty of times when your behavior doesn't conform to a specific spot on the pleasure-pain continuum, either in the present or future.

 

[booyalab]

"You are looking, sir, at a very dull survival of a very gaudy life—crippled, paralyzed in both legs, very little I can eat, and my sleep is so near waking that it’s hardly worth the name. I seem to exist largely on heat, like a newborn spider. The orchids are an excuse for the heat. Do you like orchids?"

 

[murkrow]

*sigh*

I've had this exact same conversation with my brother, and we came to the same empasse. It seems to be something that NTs can't grasp because it's so illogical. But many of the SJ folks really don't fulfill "duties" to seek pleasure or to avoid pain. It really is just because they feel it is what they have to do. It's just who they are.

They are unaware of the reasons for what they do, but they are still doing it for pleasure/less pain.

 

[Jeffster]

They are unaware of the reasons for what they do, but they are still doing it for pleasure/less pain.

 

[booyalab]

They are unaware of the reasons for what they do, but they are still doing it for pleasure/less pain.

Jeffster's response was more succinct, and therefore better...but, you know this is ridiculous, right? If everyone subscribed to the same reasons for doing everything, including all the mutually exclusive things, there would be even less assurance (than the little we currently have) that people's motives and resulting decisions take the form of cause and effect relationships. There would be no foreseeability in human behavior. Implications: no philosophy, no trust, no relationships, no economy, no society, etc.

 

[murkrow]

Huh?

How is there no foreseeability in human behavior if you assume they do everything to maximize pleasure and reduce pain?

The entire law system is based on punishing people with inconvenience, isn't that indicative of our understanding that the only way to stop people from doing things is to make the inconvenience resulting from the action greater than the benefit of the action?