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  1. #11
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    How can anyone possibly do anything which isn't hedonistic?

    They must derive some pleasure from their chastity.
    They derive some pleasure from chastity, but it was social or religious norms that most likely caused him/her to make that choice, if the norms weren't in place, they might just derive more pleasure from getting laid.

    A more extreme example of religion effecting someone's hedonism would be a homosexual killing him/herself for being an abomination. They obviously derived much pain from their religious beliefs.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    What about putting a dog down?

    Seeing someone you know and love being put off to jail?

    do we not willingly do those things. Do we get some pleasure out of it?
    I certainly wouldn't, heck I rationalize feelings all the time and feel terrible as i'm doing it.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  3. #13
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    How about the pleasure and satisfaction he felt in death for sacrificing his evil and selfish intentions to the will of God?

    You're weighing physical pain and pleasure very heavily.
    wails from the crypt.

  4. #14
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    What about putting a dog down?

    Seeing someone you know and love being put off to jail?

    do we not willingly do those things. Do we get some pleasure out of it?
    I certainly wouldn't, heck I rationalize feelings all the time and feel terrible as i'm doing it.
    It's not just about deriving pleasure, but avoiding pain. Perhaps someone seeing their dog suffer causes them more pain than putting it down.

  5. #15
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Seeing someone you know and love go to jail is out of your control, so it cannot be classified as an act of self-interest.

    As for putting the dog down.. it is for pleasure, because you would prefer not to experience the pain of watching your dog be in pain.

  6. #16
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    How about the pleasure and satisfaction he felt in death for sacrificing his evil and selfish intentions to the will of God?

    You're weighing physical pain and pleasure very heavily.
    Did he feel pleasure, or was he more trying to avoid and escape his pain?

  7. #17
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    What about putting a dog down?

    Seeing someone you know and love being put off to jail?

    do we not willingly do those things. Do we get some pleasure out of it?
    I certainly wouldn't, heck I rationalize feelings all the time and feel terrible as i'm doing it.
    There is a bitter satisfaction that comes from acting stoically.

    Your weighing of physical pleasure and euphoria above the sensation of duty fulfilled is just as culturally based as the religious glorification of chastity.
    wails from the crypt.

  8. #18
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It's not just about deriving pleasure, but avoiding pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Did he feel pleasure, or was he more trying to avoid and escape his pain?
    Also it's possible he felt some pleasure in his supplicant approaching of divinity.
    wails from the crypt.

  9. #19
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Also it's possible he felt some pleasure in his supplicant approaching of divinity.
    Sure there might have been some pleasure he experienced surrounding his suicide, but it would probably be out weighed by the pain he felt, which caused his suicide in the first place. And this would be thanks to religion, which can prevent people from realizing their hedonistic potential.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I think it depends somewhat on your judgment on long and short term issues. Maybe your angry and want to create conflict, maybe your a dick and do things not to please you but to release pent up feelings. It doesn't necessarily have to make you happy long or short term, it might just be a constant state of "abnormal" hedonism. maybe you have low self confidence and do things to make others feel happy while making you feel miserable.

    I don't know I'm just hung up on how the long/short term hedonism influences actions and if a misjudgment on the relative merit in both those scenarios can create an anti hedonism case.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

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