the philosophy of psychology (split from has psychology helped or hurt you)

[Mole]

Psychology comes from the ancient Greek word Psyche meaning soul. So psychology is the study of the soul. And the study of the soul lies in the realm of religion and philosophy.

But neither religion nor philosophy know what consciousness is, so the best they can do is offer falsifiable hypotheses.

A plausible hypothesis is that we are meaning creating animals. And we create meaning by making distinctions.

However we not only create meaning we share meaning, and psychology is rich in meaning to be shared, everything from encounter groups, reichian therapy, gestalt therapy, primal scream to meditation, and a myriad other therapies.

We prefer any meaning to no meaning, particularly meaning shared, so we can sample the varies meanings offered by psychology and perhaps choose one that suits us best.

 

[Mole]

The word psychology comes from the Ancient Greek word psyche meaning soul.

Until recently, the soul was the provence of religion, and still remains the provence of religion in that psychology is a secular form of religion.

So the question now becomes has religion helped or harmed you?

And the answer is simply that religion is not about you, religion is about supernatural beings, who they are and what they want. We are merely contingent beings while the supernatural are necessary.

So the message is crystal clear: the supernatural are important and we are unimportant.

 

[Poki]

Psychology is understanding people on a whole so we can help people individually. It's retarded and genius at the same time. As smart as psychology is, its application that makes it useful or not. Psychology as pure knowledge is useless to us.

 

[Forever]

Psychology is understanding people on a whole so we can help people individually. It's retarded and genius at the same time. As smart as psychology is, its application that makes it useful or not. Psychology as pure knowledge is useless to us.

Ah yes because anthropologically, psychology follows under the subset of universalism-with the belief that through our differences, everybody is the same inside ultimately. Kind of like the human being, outside we may appear different, but inside ourselves we have the same organs with same flesh and bones.

 

[Poki]

Ah yes because anthropologically, psychology follows under the subset of universalism-with the belief that through our differences, everybody is the same inside ultimately. Kind of like the human being, outside we may appear different, but inside ourselves we have the same organs with same flesh and bones.

Yes, but the more we believe in that the more we fall on our face with application because while we are all the same it's only bits and pieces scattered through different people. It really is like creating a spider Web and overlaying bits and pieces of that spider web over someone, not the whole thing.

Take for example learning functions and then applying it over top someone...you can really only apply bits and pieces of it not the whole Web even though the whole Web defines us as people.

My ex used to apply all screwed up parts of webs over me. She claims she knew me, but she only knew what I liked, what I enjoye, not who I was as a person. She would apply all sorts of incorrect webs over me because she looked at things like MAN and it's Web and layed the common parts over me without checking to make sure it was correct and stuff like that. I don't like planing so she laid the opposite Web over me of "Spontaneous" instead of just living life and doing what I feel like. She laid the "we must do something random" Web since I don't plan.

 

[Mole]

Ah yes because anthropologically, psychology follows under the subset of universalism-with the belief that through our differences, everybody is the same inside ultimately. Kind of like the human being, outside we may appear different, but inside ourselves we have the same organs with same flesh and bones.

This sounds startlingly familiar, after all Catholic means universal. So just as Catholicism is universal, psychology is universal.

And indeed the claim that everyone is the same inside ultimately, is tantamount to calling us Children of God.

Yes, psychology has borrowed the tropes of religion and dressed them in secular clothing.

 

[Forever]

Yes, but the more we believe in that the more we fall on our face with application because while we are all the same it's only bits and pieces scattered through different people. It really is like creating a spider Web and overlaying bits and pieces of that spider web over someone, not the whole thing.

Take for example learning functions and then applying it over top someone...you can really only apply bits and pieces of it not the whole Web even though the whole Web defines us as people.

My ex used to apply all screwed up parts of webs over me. She claims she knew me, but she only knew what I liked, what I enjoye, not who I was as a person. She would apply all sorts of incorrect webs over me because she looked at things like MAN and it's Web and layed the common parts over me without checking to make sure it was correct and stuff like that. I don't like planing so she laid the opposite Web over me of "Spontaneous" instead of just living life and doing what I feel like. She laid the "we must do something random" Web since I don't plan.

Right, over-generalization is certainly a problem that comes from psychology and even medicine. Because as even though the human body is generally the same inside for everyone, we still respond to treatments differently, regardless of it's of the psyche or body's immune system and what not. That's why I'm not exactly excited outside of this website to share that I am an INFJ with an enneagram 4w5 because that starts to have people think with a certain executable recipe, I am ready to be baked and put in their oven and come out the way they want me to.

 

[Forever]

This sounds startlingly familiar, after all Catholicism means universal. So just as Catholicism is universal, psychology is universal.

And indeed the claim that everyone is the same inside ultimately, is tantamount to calling us Children of God.

Yes, psychology has borrowed the tropes of religion and dressed them in secular clothing.

True. Interesting connection you point there, I was actually thinking the same thing a little bit earlier than this thread, however it wasn't with Catholicism but rather the own sect of what I used to believe in.

 

[Mole]

True. Interesting connection you point there, I was actually thinking the same thing a little bit earlier than this thread, however it wasn't with Catholicism but rather the own sect of what I used to believe in.

How interesting. I wonder how your own sect might prefigure psychology.

 

[Poki]

Right, over-generalization is certainly a problem that comes from psychology and even medicine. Because as even though the human body is generally the same inside for everyone, we still respond to treatments differently, regardless of it's of the psyche or body's immune system and what not. That's why I'm not exactly excited outside of this website to share that I am an INFJ with an enneagram 4w5 because that starts to have people think with a certain executable recipe, I am ready to be baked and put in their oven and come out the way they want me to.

I understand. Depending on what you read on my type it's either dead on or half wrong because they took and ran with an idea creating a meaning that no longer matches. It's usually the meaning that doesn't match.

Let's take the whole dom T and inferior F for me. While I don't always understand personally F, I have no issues applying T along with questions, and perception, and history, and such to actually build a picture of all the different varieties. Am I gonna be wrong, yeah sometimes, but honestly I understand F more then alot of F people I know because I can see the external picture of them and they get stuck in the details. It means I can usually see the self protection mechanisms and the denials and such they are blind to. And due to my TiSeNi stacking I can actually understand it fairly well.

 

[Forever]

How interesting. I wonder how your own sect might prefigure psychology.

I mean what I used to believe in is and does have christian roots (I mean we believe in the bible) but one of its core tenants are we are all children of our Heavenly Father <- Father/children. We'd learn from when we're very young that we would even sing "I am a child of God, and He has sent me here..." and He wants us to return to Him passing through this life as a trial and part of that is to accept our own differences and work it out so we can all be together with our families forever and through Christ's atonement and sacrifice it is all made possible. Omg I'm almost sounding like a missionary again.

 

[Mole]

I mean what I used to believe in is and does have christian roots (I mean we believe in the bible) but one of its core tenants are we are all children of our Heavenly Father <- Father/children. We'd learn from when we're very young that we would even sing "I am a child of God, and He has sent me here..." and He wants us to return to Him passing through this life as a trial and part of that is to accept our own differences and work it out so we can all be together with our families forever and through Christ's atonement and sacrifice it is all made possible. Omg I'm almost sounding like a missionary again.

A missionary? Or a psychologist perhaps?

 

[Forever]

I understand. Depending on what you read on my type it's either dead on or half wrong because they took and ran with an idea creating a meaning that no longer matches. It's usually the meaning that doesn't match.

Let's take the whole dom T and inferior F for me. While I don't always understand personally F, I have no issues applying T along with questions, and perception, and history, and such to actually build a picture of all the different varieties. Am I gonna be wrong, yeah sometimes, but honestly I understand F more then alot of F people I know because I can see the external picture of them and they get stuck in the details. It means I can usually see the self protection mechanisms and the denials and such they are blind to. And due to my TiSeNi stacking I can actually understand it fairly well.

Right, by understanding our own very weaknesses, we can help our opposites. I also think that sometimes psychological growth can come significantly through this understanding should we decide not to ignore our inferior side. Although we shouldn't try to own our inferior functions like a dog chasing its tail, we know its a part of us always right behind us in our psyche and can have a mind of its own. (In body language/social psychological theory, our feet are our most unconscious part of ourselves).

While there are some things I may disapprove of dominant Se users, I also appreciate and validate them for the many of the traits I don't have. Also by seeing the ESP use their inferior function then makes me realize too by being too mystical/overconfident in self made up theories can actually be quite delusional and helps me balance myself too. So yes I too, can relate to that as my intuition is not always correct, I don't know why in personality descriptions that they say our Ni is like 99% correct. Yet for none of the other types other than INTJ, like for example, does the ISJ say I'm 99% correct in mine. We have other functions to support, strengthen, and challenge our worldview, not because it's just the extras we have.

 

[Forever]

A missionary? Or a psychologist perhaps?

Are you stemming this from Carl Jung and ancient societies use these archetypes and collective symbols to help share what are important to humans to help them learn, grow, and progress?

If psychology today wasn't so up in its butt trying to be empirical like the other sciences, I'd enjoy psychology a whole lot more.

EDIT: I'm not talking about the magazine (or rather not specifically).

 

[GIjade]

The word psychology comes from the Ancient Greek word psyche meaning soul.

Until recently, the soul was the provence of religion, and still remains the provence of religion in that psychology is a secular form of religion.

What do you mean by this? Why do you think psychology is a secular form of religion? If you can convince me that what you've written is true, then I will forego responding to the rest of your post. But as it stands, you've actually turned psychology into religion. The question was has psychology helped or harmed you, and you have answered with something more related to the supernatural, which psychology is not.

The word psychologySo the question now becomes has religion helped or harmed you?

And the answer is simply that religion is not about you, religion is about supernatural beings, who they are and what they want. We are merely contingent beings while the supernatural are necessary.

So the message is crystal clear: the supernatural are important and we are unimportant.

 

[GIjade]

This sounds startlingly familiar, after all Catholic means universal. So just as Catholicism is universal, psychology is universal.

And indeed the claim that everyone is the same inside ultimately, is tantamount to calling us Children of God.

Yes, psychology has borrowed the tropes of religion and dressed them in secular clothing.

No, it isn't.

 

[Mole]

What do you mean by this? Why do you think psychology is a secular form of religion? If you can convince me that what you've written is true, then I will forego responding to the rest of your post. But as it stands, you've actually turned psychology into religion. The question was has psychology helped or harmed you, and you have answered with something more related to the supernatural, which psychology is not.

The word psychology comes from the Ancient Greek word psyche meaning soul.

And the word soul denotes a supernatural entity.

And the soul is not a natural entity. It can't be studied naturally. We can't touch, see or smell a soul. We can't measure a soul. A soul has all the characteristics of a supernatural being.

So if we want to know whether psychology has helped or harmed you, we need first to find out what psychology is.

Psychology itself claims to be a science, but there is no Psychological Theory as there is in Chemistry with the Periodic Table. So psychology is not a science.

And like religion, psychology requires the suspension of disbelief; and it requires figures of authority to guide us, just like religion.

Don't you think it strange that just as belief in religion is declining precipitately in the West, psychology is growing with leaps and bounds? Just look at how the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) has grown as religion has declined.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and the vacuum left by religion has been filled by psychology.

 

[Mole]

Rats and Stats

If psychology today wasn't so up in its butt trying to be empirical like the other sciences, I'd enjoy psychology a whole lot more.

Yes, it is very common for psychology students to refer to psychology as rats and stats.

Yes, these same psychology students call it rats and stats because they are disappointed in psychology as it didn't live up to their expectations. And their expectations were essentially religious in nature, they expected to be understood as persons, but instead, as you say, psychology makes a valiant but failed effort to be empirical.

But these same psychology students, once they graduate, still pursue their essentially religious quest into Transpersonal Psychology, a step closer to religion.

 

[Forever]

Yes, it is very common for psychology students to refer to psychology as rats and stats.

Yes, these same psychology students call it rats and stats because they are disappointed in psychology as it didn't live up to their expectations. And their expectations were essentially religious in nature, they expected to be understood as persons, but instead, as you say, psychology makes a valiant but failed effort to be empirical.

But these same psychology students, once they graduate, still pursue their essentially religious quest into Transpersonal Psychology, a step closer to religion.

In your opinion, do you think it's worthwhile to pursue this "religion"?

 

[Mole]

Are you stemming this from Carl Jung and ancient societies use these archetypes and collective symbols to help share what are important to humans to help them learn, grow, and progress?

We are meaning creating animals and we need meaning to guide our thoughts, feelings and interactions.

Mythology is a system of meanings.

And this system of meanings provides an intelligible environment in which we operate. And mostly our system of meanings, our mythology, is invisible to us but guides our thoughts, actions and interactions.

This is complicated by the fact that we also have a mythology called individualism where we see ourselves as the author of our thoughts, feelings and interactions. Just as a book has an author, we see ourselves as the author of our thoughts, feelings and interactions.

However the book is dead, and so the author is dead. And this opens up the whole rich field of mythology to us, without being hamstrung by individualism.

We can start to see the ways in which we live out our respective mythologies. For instance we can contrast the way Americans and Australians live out their different mythologies.

All this is of course anathema to those who who completely and uncritically believe in individualism. God help them.