The Doctrine of Non-Resistance

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Fair enough but I find this level of pacifism self-destructive. To me this is analogous to saying if a rapist forces himself upon you instead of resisting and trying to flee you should embrace him closer or open yourself up more to him.

I have not studied rape much in the Bible (OT), but it is not painted in a good light at all, for the victims or perps.

But, yeah, Jesus spread a new word, and it was basically love to those who are evil to you. Interesting that we now know most rape is caused by those people who are already close to you, whereas in the 80s we thought it was caused by strangers. Point being there might already be a loving bond between the rapist and his victim, and it is an acting out of repressed anger and rage that the rapist needs to express. If the victim lets the rapist act this out without causing more insult, as crazy as it sounds, it might do more to further God's love than fighting back. I don't know, I am just surmising.

Rape is just an extreme act of intimate power over another, but in a way such as to elicit love from them. The rapist lacks in feeling loved to the degree he/she must take it by force.

It's not that loving your enemy is going to save them, it is that it shocks them into feeling love in a new way. A way they are not used to. The Jews and Paul joked that loving your enemy is like heaping hot coals on their head; to them being loved almost hurts because they are so not used to it. Ideally, they can then begin asking themselves, "What is up with this person and this way they have? I want to know more about it."

I realize this is an extremely idealistic perspective but that is the point this morning: to magnify this ideology in order to really understand its nuances.


Of course, this is for people past the age of reason, as I call it. Children would be a different matter entirely. Children should not be expected to turn the other cheek, although that is exactly what they do, because children are most like Jesus of all, until they become more and more tainted by the world.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

I have not studied rape much in the Bible (OT), but it is not painted in a good light at all, for the victims or perps.

The OT has some pretty disturbing things to say about rape. Apparently the law changes depending on whether you're in the city or in the countryside. It also changes if the victim is a virgin or not and you can absolve yourself by paying the victim's father 50 shekels. Even Moses permits and commands rape and slaughtering of women and children civilians if it's during war ( war crimes). Not sure if the Bible is the best source to gain moral clarity here. Granted the NT isn't as draconian but Jesus doesn't speak out against the controversial Laws in the OT condoning rape. In fact, he's come to fulfill the Law according to his own words which is still pretty disturbing.

But, yeah, Jesus spread a new word, and it was basically love to those who are evil to you.

Again, I find this kind of self-destructive. I don't see how everyone has a right to be loved. For me love is earned through demonstrating virtue which means that love is worth something because it is earned. If I say I love both a virtuous person and a pedophile then what does that love even mean? Why should a woman's husband and her rapist be equivocated with her love?

Interesting that we now know most rape is caused by those people who are already close to you, whereas in the 80s we thought it was caused by strangers.

Did you think this or is there a study confirming that people thought it was mostly strangers in the 80s?

Point being there might already be a loving bond between the rapist and his victim, and it is an acting out of repressed anger and rage that the rapist needs to express.

Or they just want to brutally subjugate and control another human being.

If the victim lets the rapist act this out without causing more insult, as crazy as it sounds, it might do more to further God's love than fighting back. I don't know, I am just surmising.

I have a hard time seeing any kind of voluntaryism here. If the victim voluntarily lets the perp have sex with them and they have the option to say no and that will cease the action then it's no longer rape and the victim is no longer a victim. The reason something is rape is because the victim is forced to have unwanted sex. If you really believe this could further God's love then is that how you would council young women? Embrace your rapist to further God's love? Please tell me you're not serious.

Rape is just an extreme act of intimate power over another, but in a way such as to elicit love from them. The rapist lacks in feeling loved to the degree he/she must take it by force.

Even if those reasons were the case that doesn't justify it. Not even God can justify that IMO.

It's not that loving your enemy is going to save them, it is that it shocks them into feeling love in a new way. A way they are not used to. The Jews and Paul joked that loving your enemy is like heaping hot coals on their head; to them being loved almost hurts because they are so not used to it. Ideally, they can then begin asking themselves, "What is up with this person and this way they have? I want to know more about it."

Or it can enable them to take advantage of you because you engage in this accommodating behavior and you even call it good. Do you think if you loved Al-Queda and ISIS enough you could 'shock' them into feeling love and being better people? Would you recommend that the families of 9/11 victims attempt to love Islamic extremists?

I realize this is an extremely idealistic perspective but that is the point this morning: to magnify this ideology in order to really understand its nuances.

It is extremely idealistic and, I think, destructive. I hope you don't teach your children this level of pacifism.

Of course, this is for people past the age of reason, as I call it.

I can't see a reasonable argument for loving evil yet.

Children would be a different matter entirely. Children should not be expected to turn the other cheek, although that is exactly what they do, because children are most like Jesus of all, until they become more and more tainted by the world.

If children are most like Jesus and would turn the other cheek then why do you think its bad if they do so? Why shouldn't children be expected and taught to follow his example? What is the age in which the morality of this changes ( which makes it inherently subjective if you believe this)?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

God loves everyone, no matter what. Man is made in His image. Everyone has a 'right' to be loved, whether we are able to love or not.

As for the other things, I have no clear answer. Life is difficult. Living on earth is the first degree of hell, I believe. Living in hell is never going to be ideal.

We are called to live as Christ-like as possible. That is not possible until one accepts Jesus into their heart. Once you accept Him, then we can discuss these things further. Otherwise, they are too hard to reconcile with worldly ideals.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

God loves everyone, no matter what.

Is sending peoples' souls to eternal damnation for not accepting Christ (no matter how good they otherwise are) an act of love?

Man is made in His image.

So God is a human-like deity? Why human? Why does God need a human appearance (bipedal, eyes, ears, hair) and why does he have to be male? Does God carry XY chromosomes?

Everyone has a 'right' to be loved, whether we are able to love or not.

So deep down in your heart, somewhere, you love Hitler, Bin Laden, Kim Jong Un (North Korean dictator), and the Supreme Leader of Iran Ali Khamenei? Interesting...

As for the other things, I have no clear answer.

Don't be afraid to question inconsistencies.

Life is difficult.

Perspective, my dear. What in your life is so difficult? Do you think a Sudanese malnourished child living off less than a penny a day is going to take you seriously when you say "Life is difficult?"

Living on earth is the first degree of hell, I believe. Living in hell is never going to be ideal.

What an absolutely dreary and depressing perspective to have. Is your life really that bad that you would call it hell? Do you pray to God everyday to take your life and send you to a better place? I feel pretty fortunate that I was born in a relatively free country with a relatively strong respect for liberty (America) and that I have opportunities to make life something joyous and worth living. I don't believe in an afterlife which makes me value the life I have now even more so since I only get a few decades of consciousness to experience life in this universe.

We are called to live as Christ-like as possible.

If Christ-like is living by the golden rule I don't necessarily disagree with this. I de facto live Christ-like in this sense even though I don't believe he is god and I'm not even sure he actually existed (there are reasonable doubts).

That is not possible until one accepts Jesus into their heart. Once you accept Him, then we can discuss these things further. Otherwise, they are too hard to reconcile with worldly ideals.

This is an awful fallacy. It's like if you were debating with a Democrat and he tells you "Once you become a Democrat then we can discuss these things further. Otherwise, you will never understand." It's basically asking someone else to accept your POV as fact or true before making your case which is rather absurd. Don't be afraid to think beyond the box of faith.

 

[existence]

Don't be afraid to question inconsistencies.

OP pretty much sounds like a Socionics EII devaluing Ti, don't expect them to question inconsistencies

 

[existence]

Point being there might already be a loving bond between the rapist and his victim, and it is an acting out of repressed anger and rage that the rapist needs to express. If the victim lets the rapist act this out without causing more insult, as crazy as it sounds, it might do more to further God's love than fighting back. I don't know, I am just surmising.

If you don't know for sure then please don't spread crazy ideas.

 

[Poki]

I have not studied rape much in the Bible (OT), but it is not painted in a good light at all, for the victims or perps.

But, yeah, Jesus spread a new word, and it was basically love to those who are evil to you. Interesting that we now know most rape is caused by those people who are already close to you, whereas in the 80s we thought it was caused by strangers. Point being there might already be a loving bond between the rapist and his victim, and it is an acting out of repressed anger and rage that the rapist needs to express. If the victim lets the rapist act this out without causing more insult, as crazy as it sounds, it might do more to further God's love than fighting back. I don't know, I am just surmising.

Rape is just an extreme act of intimate power over another, but in a way such as to elicit love from them. The rapist lacks in feeling loved to the degree he/she must take it by force.

It's not that loving your enemy is going to save them, it is that it shocks them into feeling love in a new way. A way they are not used to. The Jews and Paul joked that loving your enemy is like heaping hot coals on their head; to them being loved almost hurts because they are so not used to it. Ideally, they can then begin asking themselves, "What is up with this person and this way they have? I want to know more about it."

I realize this is an extremely idealistic perspective but that is the point this morning: to magnify this ideology in order to really understand its nuances.


Of course, this is for people past the age of reason, as I call it. Children would be a different matter entirely. Children should not be expected to turn the other cheek, although that is exactly what they do, because children are most like Jesus of all, until they become more and more tainted by the world.

I see your point in the matter. I can't say it's the best though, nor could everyone even handle doing this. Some actually can, we are all wired differently and we can all handle things differently. Would I suggest it as the solution to the issue, no. Could it work...in some situations. Some would make it worse as it causes the rapist to think even less and to become more forceful in an attempt to be resisted against. Every situation is different.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Practicing this doctrine today. I am being viciously attacked by a non-Christian coworker who has been increasingly acting out toward me. I woke up to a horrible email from her this morning, criticizing me for all kinds of things that shouldn't even be blamed upon me. I couldn't even finished reading it, just forwarded it on to my two most trusted friends so they can read it for me. She has sent me these kinds of emails before, several times. To where I can't even read them they are so mean to me. The thing is, we just had a huge group meeting the other day, a think-tank meeting, and I thought we had cleared some issues up and everyone was on board to go forward with the things we discussed. She seemed on board too. Fact is, she wasn't on board, evidently, but is too passive to speak up. So instead, I get singled out and receive a scathing, aggressive email from her.

I just can't do it anymore here, with her. I was eager to implement the ideas our group discussed and brainstormed the other day, but I cannot work in the air of hatefulness that she spews at me. I do not desire to 'fight' back with her. She probably wants me to move out of my work apartment (where i am living), but I cannot afford to go anywhere else, and as long as I am still doing births here, and working for this place, I feel it is my right to be able to live here, whether she likes it or not, honestly. But I will try to move as soon as it is feasible, this year, if it be God's will.

I also have thought about buying her out, but not only would that involve too much negotiation and interaction with her, which I loathe to consider, I don't see how we could afford to. Anyway, I doubt she'd want to be bought out.


Regarding non-resistance. Evil is so obvious to me now. And I have the urge in this scenario to flee from it. Sometimes I might have the urge to fight it, but I don't know. I haven't actually fought evil in so long, maybe that urge has fallen away from me now as I pray daily to be able to live like Christ.

<3

 

[GIjade]

I have not studied rape much in the Bible (OT), but it is not painted in a good light at all, for the victims or perps.

But, yeah, Jesus spread a new word, and it was basically love to those who are evil to you. Interesting that we now know most rape is caused by those people who are already close to you, whereas in the 80s we thought it was caused by strangers. Point being there might already be a loving bond between the rapist and his victim, and it is an acting out of repressed anger and rage that the rapist needs to express. If the victim lets the rapist act this out without causing more insult, as crazy as it sounds, it might do more to further God's love than fighting back. I don't know, I am just surmising.

Rape is just an extreme act of intimate power over another, but in a way such as to elicit love from them. The rapist lacks in feeling loved to the degree he/she must take it by force.

It's not that loving your enemy is going to save them, it is that it shocks them into feeling love in a new way. A way they are not used to. The Jews and Paul joked that loving your enemy is like heaping hot coals on their head; to them being loved almost hurts because they are so not used to it. Ideally, they can then begin asking themselves, "What is up with this person and this way they have? I want to know more about it."

I realize this is an extremely idealistic perspective but that is the point this morning: to magnify this ideology in order to really understand its nuances.


Of course, this is for people past the age of reason, as I call it. Children would be a different matter entirely. Children should not be expected to turn the other cheek, although that is exactly what they do, because children are most like Jesus of all, until they become more and more tainted by the world.

You are pretty obviously off your rocker. Rape is violence. What kind of religion do you practice anyway?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You are pretty obviously off your rocker. Rape is violence. What kind of religion do you practice anyway?

I know rape is violent. I am not discussing rape, per se. I am more interested in this doctrine that goes completely against nature, and says, even if you are being hurt, give in.

I'm not saying anything about what people personally should do or how you should live or anything else. This is a construct Jesus taught and which I am exploring. I am simply inviting others to explore this with me.

 

[GIjade]

Nope, won't explore that with ya, ma'am.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Nope, won't explore that with ya, ma'am.

You don't have to.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Loving your enemies is more for you than for the enemy.

 

[GIjade]

You don't have to.

I know.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I know.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Loving your enemies is more for you than for the enemy.

Do you really think so? Will you elaborate?

 

[GIjade]

I know that too.

 

[uumlau]

Doctrine of non-resistance?

Jesus was anything but "non-resistant". I shouldn't have to specify the places in the Bible where He wasn't to one such as you who is well-versed in scripture. Those aspects where some would argue that He is essentially pacifist, in my opinion, mistake "picking your fights wisely" for "choosing not to fight at all". I think this arises from the fact that He was fighting for love, for humanity, not for power.

 

[Poki]

Practicing this doctrine today. I am being viciously attacked by a non-Christian coworker who has been increasingly acting out toward me. I woke up to a horrible email from her this morning, criticizing me for all kinds of things that shouldn't even be blamed upon me. I couldn't even finished reading it, just forwarded it on to my two most trusted friends so they can read it for me. She has sent me these kinds of emails before, several times. To where I can't even read them they are so mean to me. The thing is, we just had a huge group meeting the other day, a think-tank meeting, and I thought we had cleared some issues up and everyone was on board to go forward with the things we discussed. She seemed on board too. Fact is, she wasn't on board, evidently, but is too passive to speak up. So instead, I get singled out and receive a scathing, aggressive email from her.

I just can't do it anymore here, with her. I was eager to implement the ideas our group discussed and brainstormed the other day, but I cannot work in the air of hatefulness that she spews at me. I do not desire to 'fight' back with her. She probably wants me to move out of my work apartment (where i am living), but I cannot afford to go anywhere else, and as long as I am still doing births here, and working for this place, I feel it is my right to be able to live here, whether she likes it or not, honestly. But I will try to move as soon as it is feasible, this year, if it be God's will.

I also have thought about buying her out, but not only would that involve too much negotiation and interaction with her, which I loathe to consider, I don't see how we could afford to. Anyway, I doubt she'd want to be bought out.


Regarding non-resistance. Evil is so obvious to me now. And I have the urge in this scenario to flee from it. Sometimes I might have the urge to fight it, but I don't know. I haven't actually fought evil in so long, maybe that urge has fallen away from me now as I pray daily to be able to live like Christ.

<3

Fact that she is a non Christian is not the issue. Pull together a meeting, pull out the issues she discussed and talk about them as a team. Or confront another team member and ask their opinion on it. It a team...whether she goes directly to you, if it involves the teams work then involve the team.

You don't have to attack or bow down in loves name. Suck up your hurt feelings, and talk about it as a team.

 

[JocktheMotie]

AGA you should post the e-mail so we can all help.