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  1. #11
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If they have to put their blind trust in something, science is certainly the better choice.
    This is a good example of blind faith.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This is a good example of blind faith.
    No, it is a carefully considered judgment.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    GK Chesterton is often quoted as saying, "When a man stops believing in God he doesn’t then believe in nothing, he believes anything."

    The quote doesn't appear to be his words, but a paraphrase of them
    When Man Ceases to Worship God

    Regardless of its source, it is poignant enough to provoke thought. I know way too many people who blindly trust in "science" just as others trust in religion.
    People need something to believe in, that's how the average man is setup. They need to know why because they fear the unknown. Religion is one way to hold onto a "why". But you know what, it becomes a crutch, where you say one thing one day, then turn around and say something else the next as to why all in an attempt to satisfy self, to feel unconditional love, to make sense, etc. Its a form of control of ourselves, to soothe ourselves, , like sucking on a pacifier.To replace what we NEED with something, anything. I am not religious, but. Think its perfect for weaker people who need things to believe in and need why's just to continue on in life. So these people see the world as falling apart without it, when its nothing more then a projection of self if there wasn't religion.

    What's the purpose of life? To live, too help others live, and the biggest reason for life is to enjoy it.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    What do most people pray for?

    Could not those what are being prayed for be gained from science (or advancement of it) and social networking?

    Luck seems to be the only thing that science can't give you so far. But then there are affirmations - I am not talking about visualizations - that might get you so focused on something that you'd create your own luck.

    But perhaps science might never solve it (luck) but God or religion doesn't seem to deliver luck as fast as many people on MOST occasions would want to either does he?

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This is a good example of blind faith.
    I don't know whether you were joking.

    One could interpret what he said as an comparison between two options and selecting the better (or least evil) one.
    .

  5. #15
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    I think that if religion were to just disappear, people would just find something new to fight about. At least with religion people can have some sort of faith and some sort of feeling of security and personal guidance for how to live their lives.

  6. #16
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This is a good example of blind faith.
    I think I agree? I don't think the average person understands science at all. They trust whatever pseudo-science is being broadcasted loudest and call it an educated decision. (Sorry if that wasn't what you were implying, it was just the thought I had when I read it.)

    It's in human nature to categorize and makes groups of like minded individuals. We also like security and perceived certainty. I think even if the world was void of deity worship people would still clump together and defend the things they had in common with a tenacity similar to the way people defend religion.
    Friends, waffles, work

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  7. #17

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    One thing I feel compelled to add is that most scientists and engineers I know (and I know many) believe in God.

    There are plenty of atheists in the mix, and none of the scientists I know subscribe to a literal interpretation of any religious text.

    My feeling is that, for them, there is either a God similar to Spinoza's God, or a panentheistic version (where God is all of existence itself, including ourselves...see Schrodinger's epilog in "What is Life?"), or "God enough" (like in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I5mYDUARY4).

    Perhaps some of the most famous scientists who advocate for education are indeed atheists. But I do not believe that is the majority position among scientists. I could be wrong though, I have not looked into it. Agnosticism is certainly more prevalent in my experience than atheism.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield
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  8. #18
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    Much more orderly. Sweeping really. In a world of strictly physical beings, fully conscious of this at all times and with nothing to fall back post expiration, economic and social unity would soar. Like ants. Ugh, one can dream..

  9. #19
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    I think I agree? I don't think the average person understands science at all. They trust whatever pseudo-science is being broadcasted loudest and call it an educated decision. (Sorry if that wasn't what you were implying, it was just the thought I had when I read it.)
    You're reading me pretty much as I intended. As a trained scientist, I see so much nonsense peddled as science it's really rather disheartening. And some of it is very widespread and endemic among real scientists, especially w/r to food, nutrition and medicine. How bad are saturated fats? Does salt really cause high blood pressure? Does the BMI have any valid meaning if you are exceptionally tall or short? Yet because all of these a common, standard knowledge, medical practitioners will advise a diet low in salt or saturated fats and want your BMI to be within acceptable limits even if that means being rather chubby (if you're short) or thin as a rail (if you're 6' or taller).

    And that's just common stuff most normal people encounter. I see more of it at even deeper levels, e.g., talking about "wave function collapse" in quantum mechanics as if it were "spooky action at a distance" (Einstein's complaint a century ago) with quantum entanglement implying "communication" that is faster than light or even backwards in time, instead of just being a mathematical device that accurately predicts behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    One thing I feel compelled to add is that most scientists and engineers I know (and I know many) believe in God.

    There are plenty of atheists in the mix, and none of the scientists I know subscribe to a literal interpretation of any religious text.
    One survey I read about indicated that mathematicians and physicists were generally more likely to believe in God, while biologists were among the least likely to believe in God. The explanation for these results that made the most sense to me is that in math and physics, the universe is very ordered and follows very particular rules that are extremely reliable, so the notion that there is some kind of overarching metaphysical ORDER to the universe fits in their worldview. Heck, even the Big Bang fits in with creationism to a degree, as the physics (as we know it) indicates that the universe had to start out as light, literally. (I don't offer this as proof one way or the other, just saying that there actually isn't that much cognitive dissonance between a religious point of view and a rigorous mathematical/physical point of view.) Biologists, on the other hand, would appear to be very conscious of the evolution/creation debate, so studying biology and evolution would tend to have more cognitive dissonance with a religious point of view.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #20
    Member avaxtskyr's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter. Something else as powerful would exist in its place.
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