How [Un]Comfortable Are You...?

[á´…eparted]

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

There is nothing inherient about the world/universe that gives it meaning. It simply exists and that's where it ends

Meaning comes from what we decide it to be.

 

[Galena]

Better this than having my meaning decided for me.

Although, I would much rather design my own (to keep to myself, letting others live by theirs) than leave it at nothing. Nihilism can be imposed as a universal schema just like the rest. When someone insists that the invention of any purpose for life is pretentious and that we shouldn't do that, that's as grating as anything.

 

[sprinkles]

Better this than having my meaning decided for me.

Although, I would much rather design my own (to keep to myself, letting others live by theirs) than leave it at nothing. Nihilism can be imposed as a universal schema just like the rest. When someone insists that the invention of any purpose for life is pretentious and that we shouldn't do that, that's as grating as anything.

Out of curiosity, who has insisted that we shouldn't invent purpose?

 

[INTP]

I figured it as a kid already that there is no ultimate meaning for things. However there are reasons for things, everything happens for a reason, but the reason is just plain old causality. However later i have realized that actually there is meaning for our existence as well, our genes give that meaning by making us want to spread our genes.
So in the end, your meaning is to make babies and the reason for everything is causality. Ofc you making babies is outcome of causality, but "meaning" refers more to your purpose to make babies, its more of an aim than purely just an end result/reason of things happening(causality).

 

[Galena]

Out of curiosity, who has insisted that we shouldn't invent purpose?

I don't know specific people who have, but I have seen that opinion come up before in online threads like this one.

 

[sprinkles]

I don't know specific people who have, but I have seen that opinion come up before in online threads like this one.

Ah, ok. I think we can safely ignore such opinions.

I was just wondering because I thought there might be something I could look up because I'm curious as to what kind of explanation they could possibly have to back that idea up.

 

[00c]

Acting on immediate impulses of hunger, pain, or fear is not what most people would consider "goal-oriented". In fact, when we criticise someone, rightly or wrongly, for being not very goal-oriented, we tend to be speaking of someone who leads a rather hand-to-mouth existence, going through life simply reacting to whatever comes his or her way, rather than taking control of his or her life and setting actual goals. This lifestyle is not necessarily wrong, and if approached with reasonable expectations, might actually bring considerable pleasure to an individual. It just illustrates how goals and life are far from synonomous.

As for you "can'ts won'ts and don'ts", I suspect you live by a fair amount of them yourself, at least if you live a normal human existence on planet earth. From the laws of gravity to traffic laws, there are plenty of things we experience in the negative, whether by our own choice or the impositions of others/society. That's why language is so accommodating of it.


This is quite a claim. This forum alone is full of threads highlighting, often celebrating, sometimes criticising, the many differences around us: from people (types, races, gender, career, religion, musical tastes, fashion sense, etc), to locations, to political philosophies, to food and exercise regimens. It is quite a leap to smear this all away into homogeneity.

You are of course welcome to your beliefs, but believing something does not make it reality.

As for the OP: assume for the sake of argument that life has some inherent meaning. Will that meaning make sense and be important to each individual person? What if some of us find that meaning at odds with our personal values, goals, or simply what makes us feel good? In this sense, the ability for each person to apply his/her own personal meaning to life seems to be a good thing, and a source of creativity and personal agency, rather than a cause for depression or angst.

Why doesn't believing in something make it reality if you have the facets to make it one? All great things in this world have come to be by the power of believing and actively striving to make it a reality.
You're protecting the belief of not believing. How does that progress anything worthwhile? What is there not to believe? It's always easier to act on disbelief since you need nothing to do, but say no and keep that area of your mind shut from growth and development of whatever matter it may be. Essentially ignore and forget which most do so well because it's such a simple and easy thing to do.

I said goal-striving mechanisms, not the whole characterization of a person who is stereotypically considered goal-oriented. I'm not alluding to the fact of someone who plans what they're doing every second of the day to ensure that they get whatever they're going for, but who have an idea of a clear sight ahead in time of what they want. Conscious effort is always, ten times out of ten, much more effort than if you let your subconscious sublimely do the rest while you simply have the idea, the belief in the back of your head, that you can and will. This entire reality is far beyond the scope of that which most let themselves imagine. In fact, it only gets greater by those who let the power to imagine scamper where they want it to, act on it and not be deterred. Despite everyone's entitlement to certain beliefs, we're all striving towards the truth, our personal truth. Don't we all have that in common? Why is that not enough to say that it's all interconnected towards the truth? Because people love to lie to themselves, but conversely are telling themselves the truth which they decide to make it? You would be surprised at the amount of people walking around who believe that getting other people to feel pity for them would make them feel better rather than simply believing that they are completely fine to begin with. Those who remain undeterred are the ones who are able to deter everyone else; ideologically, physically, emotionally. It's all about control and what better control is there of the world than the one to believe in finding and changing truth.

Believing you're amazing makes you amazing. Saying you're amazing doesn't make you amazing. They're two different things, saying and believing. Truth is what gives life meaning, finding your personal truth, believing someone elses truth, but those are goals. Even now, you're debating to come to your own personal truth or try to deter mine. How does this not make it all interconnected? How is this not what we all try to do? Giving ourselves purpose is the purpose and some people find some odd purpose in pitying themselves and having others pity them because they have convinced themselves of the belief, of the truth because they chose to make it so, that they are inferior. Believing that there's nothing to believe in. That sounds marvelous! No, it doesn't. Life has the meaning you give it, if you believe it has no meaning then it shall have no meaning. Most choose to believe the negative and stay in those parameters. To seek and believe in a standard of greatness in yourself will only make you act in that form of greatness, whatever it may have been that you have been exposed to that is greatness, which is your individual truth. I'm not talking about simple condescending arrogance as they're leagues different from one another, but it may be different for someone else because they convinced themselves of a whole other idea of what great is. People choose to make themselves miserable by the truths they convince themselves of, such as "I am ugly", "I am weak", "I am stupid". It's such a pathetic culture, but it leaves a lot more room for those bent on progressing and keeping their secrets of greatness to themselves as such marvels that have been come across by people who allowed themselves to simply believe in greatness wouldn't want it shared with people of such ordinary temperance, of those who can't resist not eating a pathetic little cake or who can't resist not sharing that worthless little piece of gossip about Rebecca or those that believe that money is truly everything and believe that it's more valuable than a life when it never is as the capabilities of a person surpass far beyond what many let themselves believe.

Seeing is believing and that's where most people fail when it comes to ingenuity. The ones called crazy for believing the world wasn't flat proved it was not flat and they didn't stop until they proved it. It's a constant effort to prove to yourself and others of whatever it may be, but you'll notice that the people who have contributed the greatest of grandeur's which we see today were primarily influenced by themselves and their drive to prove to themselves what they believed in. Believing trumps actively seeing any day of the week and I'm positive that the greatest things that are within our world are not things which would be shared with common people on an internet forum who constantly revisit to boost their egos and have some sort of "fulfilling" perception with others rather than with themselves. Miserable people don't believe in happiness and what does that make them? Believing is believing. Just because somebody says that they believe doesn't mean that they believe. Getting caught up in others beliefs and trying to debunk them is what wastes so much time and progression, and although it may seem like I'm trying to debunk yours or sprinkles, I'm simply not accepting it into anything of mine as it's detrimental. The inherent meaning of life is truth and belief, for me, but for you as well even if you don't want to admit it. boom. That's it and I make it so. The ultimate belief is the meta of the belief of believing. Believing in not believing will result in an ordinary life which is beyond horrible in comparison to what I'm after. Of course I live in "can'ts won'ts and don'ts" in which I must to advance in typical society because I'm not in the position that I believe I will be yet, but yet most that do exist in every day life are not detrimental and completely inane as the action of saying "don't believe". The belief of making anyone do anything is quite a characteristic of confidence-men and I ponder at the wonders that the greatest among these have come across as it's beyond most of our imaginations. It's belief that drives these confidence-men and they make their lives and they can make the lives of another by simply making them believe what they want them to. It's really something magical. But of course, people love their "can'ts won'ts and don'ts" and that's completely mutable for most as much as they would love to deny.

 

[21%]

For me, life has no inherent meaning. You put meaning into it yourself. I'm not distressed by the fact that life has no inherent meaning, because I know I have to be the one who put meaning there, or it will be empty. My values are meaningful. My loved ones are meaningful. These are the meanings I've found for myself and these are what I live for.

 

[Bush]

It's fine. Liberating. Most of the rest of what I'd say has already been said.

 

[Eluded_One]

The OP is basically asking, "how much of a nihilist are you?". I'll correspond by asking "how far do you want to remap your course?".

"Intrinsic" is made up word, just like everything else. The natural form of things is formless.

 

[Passacaglia]

The OP is basically asking, "how much of a nihilist are you?".

I think I could have worded the OP better, because I'm actually interested in how folks feel when y'all consider the possibility that life lacks inherent meaning, rather than what you do or don't believe.

Even people with strong belief systems stumble across this idea sooner or later, and I'm curious how it makes them feel.

 

[sprinkles]

I think I could have worded the OP better, because I'm actually interested in how folks feel when y'all consider the possibility that life lacks inherent meaning, rather than what you do or don't believe.

Even people with strong belief systems stumble across this idea sooner or later, and I'm curious how it makes them feel.

As far as I'm concerned you didn't ask anything about nihilism or beliefs. People are filling in their own stuff as usual.

 

[Jaguar]

I cannot tell other people that they are unhappy? I can. Why can't I? I have the right to anything if I will myself to, but yet you want to persuade me into not believing in that manner. People are not happy if they have nothing to look forward to, they feel a meaningless existence with nowhere to go to. Why wouldn't they? Is there aimless people who are truly happy? The "thrill-seekers" who think parties and drugs will make them happy most likely aren't because there is no actual goal once you have it in the present, there's nothing to work towards. Nothing they can propel themselves to anymore.

You've managed to suggest that one cannot be happy unless their life matches your personal opinion of what constitutes happiness. The need to control/define the lives of others is perhaps your unwillingness to look at your own life, which may be nothing short of miserable by the definition of another.

As for the OP - it's not a big deal that I am responsible for choosing what does or doesn't give my life meaning.

 

[Eluded_One]

I think I could have worded the OP better, because I'm actually interested in how folks feel when y'all consider the possibility that life lacks inherent meaning, rather than what you do or don't believe.

Even people with strong belief systems stumble across this idea sooner or later, and I'm curious how it makes them feel.

I apologize, I misunderstood. In that case, I feel as though we're part of this giant machine, that wires us in a certain way that may or may not motivate/guide us through feelings of such. Birds know when to fly south. As far as people go... they instinctively get stumped when they get the hint when their efforts go fruitless.

 

[~ReggieRebel~]

so, op was all about how you feel about the fact that some folks find meaning in life and some find life meaningless.

well, solomon the wize once said that everything is meaningless.

but just cuz a wize guy says something, doesnt mean its true. eg. steven hawking could say that the color pink is really the color blue. stating it doesnt make it so, it just brings the concept out for examination.

anyway. back to how i 'feel' . im perfectly happy with both sides of the equasion. coin side the first says that actions and objects have the purpose that the user ascribez to them. if the user is satisfied with the result, the action has meaning. if not, the user may find meaning different from the requested output, or, they my say well, input did not give me requested output, therefore the procedure was meaningless. (and this btw, is what i think solomon was refering to).
the other side of the coin is to say that ths input is you, the output is whatever the one who created you wants it to be, and the procedure is the sum total of your thoughts actions and whathaveyous. in this case, the one who created you is the one who determins if you have meaning or not. personaly, in such a case, i believe it to be the sum of, have you found meaning, and can your creater use the meaning that you have found to his own ends without infringing on your choice.

so short answer, life is simultaniously full of meaning, and meaningless. they are opposites that gain strength from each other. we couod not define hot, without knowledge of cold, likewise meaning cannot be described without looking at its opposite.

and as for how i feel...it doesnt make me uncomfortable at all. it is as it should be. and as another poster said, if im hungry, im not goimg to wonder whether ezting a sandwich has more meaning than eating a chicken....im going to just pick one and eat it. cuz if i dont, and continually chose not to eat, i will die. and unless i am chosing to die for a reason that others relate to, or, unless folks looking back at my refusal to eat, ascribe their own meaning to my death, my deciding to not eat will be as meaningless (read trivial and useless) as deciding between the chicken dinner and egg salad sandwich. who cares, just pick one...and if you must discover what meanings you want attributed to your procedures, for pitys sake dont become imobilized by the plethora of choices.

 

[00c]

You've managed to suggest that one cannot be happy unless their life matches your personal opinion of what constitutes happiness. The need to control/define the lives of others is perhaps your unwillingness to look at your own life, which may be nothing short of miserable by the definition of another.

As for the OP - it's not a big deal that I am responsible for choosing what does or doesn't give my life meaning.

Pointless semantics, but it's been quite proven and seen again and again that these are the measures of general happiness. If you had thoroughly read my post you would have seen that I had pointed out that I am not trying to control anyone's life, just that I am simply not accepting any of your definitions that consist of negatives; this is my definition, not yours, this is my input and belief and it's your choice to listen to it or not. People sure love to get stuck on their negative philosophies that really don't promulgate anything at all. Meaningless? You make it meaningless. There's a lot more to the mind than most let themselves believe by telling themselves "This can't be true!", but what then? You forget that viewpoint ever existed and shut it out and do not let it grow. Happiness is the same. Pessimism is reserved for the very simple and lowly of this world that can't look beyond the fact that a late house bill will not destroy their life, but yet choose to worry and waste so much meaningful time. This is my definition and it's your choice to listen to it or not. Capisce? I have no interest in controlling the view points of random people on the internet, but I'm free to express it as it's quite valid just as any and I love to share what I have learned. Except negatives. Thoughts are like plants and if you take care of them, they'll only grow. Negative or positive, but it's your choice to leave the weeds or to water the pretty roses. The weeds are always easier to let grow, but the flowers need more maintenance and by that logic it will always be easier to be a pessimist and say that you "can't".

 

[Jaguar]

Pointless semantics, but it's been quite proven and seen again and again that these are the measures of general happiness. If you had thoroughly read my post you would have seen that I had pointed out that I am not trying to control anyone's life, just that I am simply not accepting any of your definitions that consist of negatives; this is my definition, not yours, this is my input and belief and it's your choice to listen to it or not. People sure love to get stuck on their negative philosophies that really don't promulgate anything at all. Meaningless? You make it meaningless. There's a lot more to the mind than most let themselves believe by telling themselves "This can't be true!", but what then? You forget that viewpoint ever existed and shut it out and do not let it grow. Happiness is the same. Pessimism is reserved for the very simple and lowly of this world that can't look beyond the fact that a late house bill will not destroy their life, but yet choose to worry and waste so much meaningful time. This is my definition and it's your choice to listen to it or not. Capisce? I have no interest in controlling the view points of random people on the internet, but I'm free to express it as it's quite valid just as any and I love to share what I have learned. Except negatives. Thoughts are like plants and if you take care of them, they'll only grow. Negative or positive, but it's your choice to leave the weeds or to water the pretty roses. The weeds are always easier to let grow, but the flowers need more maintenance and by that logic it will always be easier to be a pessimist and say that you "can't".

If I had read your post? Clearly, you didn't read mine. There weren't any "negative definitions" to accept in my post. As a matter of fact, there weren't even any definitions. Period.
Perhaps you've been spouting the same bullshit for so long you don't even realize whose post is different from the other.

Get off the pulpit, cookie. It's boring.

 

[00c]

If I had read your post? Clearly, you didn't read mine. There weren't any "negative definitions" to accept in my post. As a matter of fact, there weren't even any definitions. Period.
Perhaps you've been spouting the same bullshit for so long you don't even realize whose post is different from the other.

Get off the pulpit, cookie. It's boring.

You're condescendingly ignorant and hypocritical. I was obviously simply expanding on what I had already said since it seems you misinterpreted (which you really did). You're proving yourself wrong and if you'd like to keep going, you may, but arguing with a blind fool isn't on my list of needs or wants and neither is raising my post count to a senseless height such as yours. I'll stay on my pulpit and you can keep being worthless while looking up at me. Come up with a vaguely original thought or piss off with your useless criticism; I was just sharing. You tried individually diagnosing me and now I'm telling you to keep your psychology degree to yourself. Where did you get it? Most of your own posts are bullshit in and of themselves and since you want to call me out or whatever uppity forum users like you like to do, I'm telling you that you're not at all anything of worth since most all you do is spread ignorance and contempt with a worthless arrogance and perhaps you could say the same for me, but I'm not an old man.

8 years in such a simple forum and community such as this one, what have you done with your life, you useless pessimist? The way you act just speaks for yourself and like you said "Perhaps you've been spouting the same bullshit for so long you don't even realize whose post is different from the other.", I see it in all of your posts. Go do and join something respectful, old man, or is it that by the way you act you cannot find any such place? I could go on. I could get banned. But people like you are really the bane of this world and the bane of this world has a tendency of staying at the bottom regardless of the amount which people at the top are said to be evil when most are more benevolent than pond scum such as yourself, but of course the more tyrannical always stand out. Any time I go through a post of yours, I cringe at the disrespect and pride. Grow up, old man. That is all.

 

[Jaguar]

You're condescendingly ignorant and hypocritical. I was expanding on what I had already said since it seems you misinterpreted (which you really did). You're proving yourself wrong and if you'd like to keep going, you may, but arguing with a blind fool isn't on my list of needs or wants and neither is raising my post count to a senseless height such as yours. I'll stay on my pulpit and you can keep being worthless while looking up at me.
Come up with a vaguely original thought or piss off with your useless criticism; I was just sharing. You tried individually diagnosing me and now I'm telling you to keep your psychology degree to yourself. Where did you get it?
Most of your own posts are bullshit in and of themselves and since you want to call me out or whatever uppity forum users like you like to do, I'm telling you that you're not at all anything of worth since most all you do is spread ignorance and contempt with a worthless arrogance and perhaps you could say the same for me, but I'm not an old man.

8 years in such a simple forum and community such as this one, what have you done with your life, you useless pessimist? The way you act just speaks for yourself and like you said "perhaps you've been spouting the same bullshit for so long you don't even realize whose post is different from the other.", I see it in all of your posts. Go do and join something respectful, old man, or is it that by the way you act you cannot find any such place? I could go on. I could get banned. But people like you are really the bane of this world and the bane of this world has a tendency of staying at the bottom regardless of the amount which people at the top are said to be evil when most are more benevolent than pond scum like yourself. Any time I go through a post of yours, I cringe at the disrespect and pride. Grow up, old man. That is all.

Let me know when you're calm. I'm off to get a sandwich.

 

[Beorn]

I think I could have worded the OP better, because I'm actually interested in how folks feel when y'all consider the possibility that life lacks inherent meaning, rather than what you do or don't believe.

Even people with strong belief systems stumble across this idea sooner or later, and I'm curious how it makes them feel.

How does it feel?

I think Ben Gibbard Captures it.