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  1. #41
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

    There is nothing inherient about the world/universe that gives it meaning. It simply exists and that's where it ends

    Meaning comes from what we decide it to be.
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  2. #42
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Better this than having my meaning decided for me.

    Although, I would much rather design my own (to keep to myself, letting others live by theirs) than leave it at nothing. Nihilism can be imposed as a universal schema just like the rest. When someone insists that the invention of any purpose for life is pretentious and that we shouldn't do that, that's as grating as anything.
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  3. #43
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixie View Post
    Better this than having my meaning decided for me.

    Although, I would much rather design my own (to keep to myself, letting others live by theirs) than leave it at nothing. Nihilism can be imposed as a universal schema just like the rest. When someone insists that the invention of any purpose for life is pretentious and that we shouldn't do that, that's as grating as anything.
    Out of curiosity, who has insisted that we shouldn't invent purpose?

  4. #44
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    I figured it as a kid already that there is no ultimate meaning for things. However there are reasons for things, everything happens for a reason, but the reason is just plain old causality. However later i have realized that actually there is meaning for our existence as well, our genes give that meaning by making us want to spread our genes.
    So in the end, your meaning is to make babies and the reason for everything is causality. Ofc you making babies is outcome of causality, but "meaning" refers more to your purpose to make babies, its more of an aim than purely just an end result/reason of things happening(causality).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  5. #45
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Out of curiosity, who has insisted that we shouldn't invent purpose?
    I don't know specific people who have, but I have seen that opinion come up before in online threads like this one.
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  6. #46
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixie View Post
    I don't know specific people who have, but I have seen that opinion come up before in online threads like this one.
    Ah, ok. I think we can safely ignore such opinions.

    I was just wondering because I thought there might be something I could look up because I'm curious as to what kind of explanation they could possibly have to back that idea up.

  7. #47
    Member 00c's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Acting on immediate impulses of hunger, pain, or fear is not what most people would consider "goal-oriented". In fact, when we criticise someone, rightly or wrongly, for being not very goal-oriented, we tend to be speaking of someone who leads a rather hand-to-mouth existence, going through life simply reacting to whatever comes his or her way, rather than taking control of his or her life and setting actual goals. This lifestyle is not necessarily wrong, and if approached with reasonable expectations, might actually bring considerable pleasure to an individual. It just illustrates how goals and life are far from synonomous.

    As for you "can'ts won'ts and don'ts", I suspect you live by a fair amount of them yourself, at least if you live a normal human existence on planet earth. From the laws of gravity to traffic laws, there are plenty of things we experience in the negative, whether by our own choice or the impositions of others/society. That's why language is so accommodating of it.


    This is quite a claim. This forum alone is full of threads highlighting, often celebrating, sometimes criticising, the many differences around us: from people (types, races, gender, career, religion, musical tastes, fashion sense, etc), to locations, to political philosophies, to food and exercise regimens. It is quite a leap to smear this all away into homogeneity.

    You are of course welcome to your beliefs, but believing something does not make it reality.

    As for the OP: assume for the sake of argument that life has some inherent meaning. Will that meaning make sense and be important to each individual person? What if some of us find that meaning at odds with our personal values, goals, or simply what makes us feel good? In this sense, the ability for each person to apply his/her own personal meaning to life seems to be a good thing, and a source of creativity and personal agency, rather than a cause for depression or angst.
    Why doesn't believing in something make it reality if you have the facets to make it one? All great things in this world have come to be by the power of believing and actively striving to make it a reality.
    You're protecting the belief of not believing. How does that progress anything worthwhile? What is there not to believe? It's always easier to act on disbelief since you need nothing to do, but say no and keep that area of your mind shut from growth and development of whatever matter it may be. Essentially ignore and forget which most do so well because it's such a simple and easy thing to do.

    I said goal-striving mechanisms, not the whole characterization of a person who is stereotypically considered goal-oriented. I'm not alluding to the fact of someone who plans what they're doing every second of the day to ensure that they get whatever they're going for, but who have an idea of a clear sight ahead in time of what they want. Conscious effort is always, ten times out of ten, much more effort than if you let your subconscious sublimely do the rest while you simply have the idea, the belief in the back of your head, that you can and will. This entire reality is far beyond the scope of that which most let themselves imagine. In fact, it only gets greater by those who let the power to imagine scamper where they want it to, act on it and not be deterred. Despite everyone's entitlement to certain beliefs, we're all striving towards the truth, our personal truth. Don't we all have that in common? Why is that not enough to say that it's all interconnected towards the truth? Because people love to lie to themselves, but conversely are telling themselves the truth which they decide to make it? You would be surprised at the amount of people walking around who believe that getting other people to feel pity for them would make them feel better rather than simply believing that they are completely fine to begin with. Those who remain undeterred are the ones who are able to deter everyone else; ideologically, physically, emotionally. It's all about control and what better control is there of the world than the one to believe in finding and changing truth.

    Believing you're amazing makes you amazing. Saying you're amazing doesn't make you amazing. They're two different things, saying and believing. Truth is what gives life meaning, finding your personal truth, believing someone elses truth, but those are goals. Even now, you're debating to come to your own personal truth or try to deter mine. How does this not make it all interconnected? How is this not what we all try to do? Giving ourselves purpose is the purpose and some people find some odd purpose in pitying themselves and having others pity them because they have convinced themselves of the belief, of the truth because they chose to make it so, that they are inferior. Believing that there's nothing to believe in. That sounds marvelous! No, it doesn't. Life has the meaning you give it, if you believe it has no meaning then it shall have no meaning. Most choose to believe the negative and stay in those parameters. To seek and believe in a standard of greatness in yourself will only make you act in that form of greatness, whatever it may have been that you have been exposed to that is greatness, which is your individual truth. I'm not talking about simple condescending arrogance as they're leagues different from one another, but it may be different for someone else because they convinced themselves of a whole other idea of what great is. People choose to make themselves miserable by the truths they convince themselves of, such as "I am ugly", "I am weak", "I am stupid". It's such a pathetic culture, but it leaves a lot more room for those bent on progressing and keeping their secrets of greatness to themselves as such marvels that have been come across by people who allowed themselves to simply believe in greatness wouldn't want it shared with people of such ordinary temperance, of those who can't resist not eating a pathetic little cake or who can't resist not sharing that worthless little piece of gossip about Rebecca or those that believe that money is truly everything and believe that it's more valuable than a life when it never is as the capabilities of a person surpass far beyond what many let themselves believe.

    Seeing is believing and that's where most people fail when it comes to ingenuity. The ones called crazy for believing the world wasn't flat proved it was not flat and they didn't stop until they proved it. It's a constant effort to prove to yourself and others of whatever it may be, but you'll notice that the people who have contributed the greatest of grandeur's which we see today were primarily influenced by themselves and their drive to prove to themselves what they believed in. Believing trumps actively seeing any day of the week and I'm positive that the greatest things that are within our world are not things which would be shared with common people on an internet forum who constantly revisit to boost their egos and have some sort of "fulfilling" perception with others rather than with themselves. Miserable people don't believe in happiness and what does that make them? Believing is believing. Just because somebody says that they believe doesn't mean that they believe. Getting caught up in others beliefs and trying to debunk them is what wastes so much time and progression, and although it may seem like I'm trying to debunk yours or sprinkles, I'm simply not accepting it into anything of mine as it's detrimental. The inherent meaning of life is truth and belief, for me, but for you as well even if you don't want to admit it. boom. That's it and I make it so. The ultimate belief is the meta of the belief of believing. Believing in not believing will result in an ordinary life which is beyond horrible in comparison to what I'm after. Of course I live in "can'ts won'ts and don'ts" in which I must to advance in typical society because I'm not in the position that I believe I will be yet, but yet most that do exist in every day life are not detrimental and completely inane as the action of saying "don't believe". The belief of making anyone do anything is quite a characteristic of confidence-men and I ponder at the wonders that the greatest among these have come across as it's beyond most of our imaginations. It's belief that drives these confidence-men and they make their lives and they can make the lives of another by simply making them believe what they want them to. It's really something magical. But of course, people love their "can'ts won'ts and don'ts" and that's completely mutable for most as much as they would love to deny.
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  8. #48
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    For me, life has no inherent meaning. You put meaning into it yourself. I'm not distressed by the fact that life has no inherent meaning, because I know I have to be the one who put meaning there, or it will be empty. My values are meaningful. My loved ones are meaningful. These are the meanings I've found for myself and these are what I live for.
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  9. #49
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    It's fine. Liberating. Most of the rest of what I'd say has already been said.
    J. Scott Crothers
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  10. #50
    Senior Member Eluded_One's Avatar
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    The OP is basically asking, "how much of a nihilist are you?". I'll correspond by asking "how far do you want to remap your course?".

    "Intrinsic" is made up word, just like everything else. The natural form of things is formless.
    “If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.” -anonymous
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