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  1. #11
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    With great power comes great responsibility, because it is your responsibility to use your power for good and not for evil. You are responsible to look after yourself so that you will be able to look after other people and nature at large. Responsibility recognises that we do not exist in bubbles, so what you do effects more than just you. Responsibility tailors its actions to have effects that are the most beneficial to whatever things your actions can effect.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Responsible to for what?
    You are responsible for your impact on everything, both around you and yourself. Gromit answered this perfectly:
    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    You are accountable for the consequences of your actions. You follow through on what you say you are going to do. You own your shit. And you aren't a burden on others (within your capabilities, obviously).
    And let me extend what it means to the rest of the questions:
    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Responsible to whom?
    Everyone & everything your personal agency touches upon, including yourself.

    Which should also help you understand why this is the case:
    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    It always seems connected to a social group, and it's always often about the more influential members of that group. It seems like socially agreed roles. But then, there's that line from Spiderman, "With great power, comes great responsibility", being a superhero is not a socially agreed role. What is it exactly?
    The more influential you have, the further the reach of your own personal agency. The responsibility doesn't result from the group agreeing that it's there, it will be there even if nobody in the group knows about it - It's simply that in the case of social power, the group's agreement is what gives a person the influence to begin with. For contrast, Peter Parker's power doesn't come from any social role given by others, but they extend impact on others and thus his responsibility for others, even if the social agreement is not only lacking, but out right disputed (Many if not most of the city inhabitants view him as a dangerous outlaw).

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Isn't that a relative thing? Isn't that dependent on what you personally care about?
    There is a distinction to be made here:
    You feel compelled to be responsible for what you care about.
    You are responsible for your actions, regardless of what you care about.

    I love shrimps, and in my love for shrimps I have helped finance the murder of dozens if not hundreds of shrimps. I don't really care about the well being of individual shrimps, which means I don't care that I have harmed them. But I am still responsible for harming them. If the shrimp families of the shrimps I've eaten had a trial and asked who's accountable for the murder of their fallen brethren, holding me, the fisherman and the cook responsible would be completely true, regardless of how I feel about it, regardless of whether I care. If I deny that responsibility, that doesn't mean I am not responsible, it means I am now owning up to a responsibility that's going to exist regardless of how I feel. Agency bestows responsibility, you are within your full right to choose what you care about, you do not get to choose what consequences of your actions you are responsible for.

    Warning: Mind fuck territory ahead.

  3. #13
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    This Foucault quote is coming to mind, "People know what they do; frequently they know why they do what they do; but what they don't know is what what they do does."

    And I like the way @Xander phrased it above: it's about owning that impact. Regardless of what we wanted our impact to be, what our intentions were, if for some reason we have more influence in any given situation than we wanted, etc- I think being responsible means seeing past all of that and being able to take ownership for the impact we've actually had on others.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Hitoshi-San's Avatar
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    Not biting off more than you can chew, and once you need to make a decision with the said thing, you find a way to make everything work out in some way or another without starting other problems.

  5. #15
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Default What is the meaning of responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    This Foucault quote is coming to mind, "People know what they do; frequently they know why they do what they do; but what they don't know is what what they do does."

    And I like the way @Xander phrased it above: it's about owning that impact. Regardless of what we wanted our impact to be, what our intentions were, if for some reason we have more influence in any given situation than we wanted, etc- I think being responsible means seeing past all of that and being able to take ownership for the impact we've actually had on others.
    Why do people reject their impact? Do they have an emotional reason? What are common reasons? Are they simply unaware?

    And how can you truly say it is your impact? The butterfly effect comes to mind. The world is chaotically impossible to accurately predict. Do you own everything that happens in the universe? Your agency keeps disrupting the atoms around you. This might sound like an absurd problem to human perception. It would seem obvious to us that you are responsible for the movement of the ball you've thrown in front of you, and not with the current war happening at the other side of the world. Where do you draw the line? A certain % involvement in the causation? And what about Awareness? Are you responsible for things you have ignorantly caused? How can you own what you don't know about? There are many complications.

    The Foucault quote is helpful. Quotes from past thinkers are most of the time very meaningful. It only talks about one's reaction to one's effects though, or what people term as 'personal responsibility.' It only refers to a reaction, a very specific one(knowing or owning impacts), as opposed to an action or what they term as 'social responsibility.' Both involve 'act' or agency. How do these two forms of agency relate? The latter is simply broader?
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  6. #16
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Why do people reject their impact? Do they have an emotional reason? What are common reasons? Are they simply unaware?
    I guess I personally suspect most people are unaware. I think a lot of people are probably aware of what they want their impact to be- but they rarely spend the time/effort to check and see if it's the impact they're actually making. A lot of that is probably just already feeling so rushed in everyday life.

    And then there's the problem of identity/ego interfering with the capacity to accept the impact we are actually making. Lots of folks will lash out and blame someone/something external when we don't have the impact we intended: e.g. "The only reason these flowers I brought you aren't making you happy is because you're ungrateful." (i.e. my plan didn't work out because something about someone else is flawed).

    That's all that's coming to mind immediately, but there's all sorts of things that interfere with our ability to own it.

    And how can you truly say it is your impact? The butterfly effect comes to mind. The world is chaotically impossible to accurately predict. Do you own everything that happens in the universe? Your agency keeps disrupting the atoms around you. This might sound like an absurd problem to human perception. It would seem obvious to us that you are responsible for the movement of the ball you've thrown in front of you, and not with the current war happening at the other side of the world. Where do you draw the line? A certain % involvement in the causation? And what about Awareness? Are you responsible for things you have ignorantly caused? How can you own what you don't know about? There are many complications.
    Yeah, it's a huge thing to consider- a person could make it their full time job to pay attention to all the possibilities of the potential ripples they create every single time they interact with others (or choose not to interact) and it still wouldn't be possible to be entirely aware of one's own impact. And just like some people don't own enough of their own impact, some people own too much responsibility for 'everything that happens in the universe'- and that ends up throwing shit in the pool too (because they're not taking adequate care of themselves- which ultimately can make them more of a burden than an asset- and it only just enables the parasitic behavior of people who regularly offload their own responsibilities onto others anyway). Theoretically, it can be overwhelming to consider, especially if one is trying to build a holistic and immaculately ethical 'how to take responsibility for one's self' construct. But on a practical level- a person can cultivate responsibility and owning one's own footprint in the world by taking each moment as an independent challenge to consider in isolation.

    The Foucault quote is helpful. Quotes from past thinkers are most of the time very meaningful. It only talks about one's reaction to one's effects though, or what people term as 'personal responsibility.' It only refers to a reaction, a very specific one(knowing or owning impacts), as opposed to an action or what they term as 'social responsibility.' Both involve 'act' or agency. How do these two forms of agency relate? The latter is simply broader?
    I'm not entirely sure I know what you're asking here. I think I agree- I'd consider the latter broader in scope. When I hear the phrase "personal responsibility", I think about the things one needs to do to take care of oneself and maybe those directly tied to the person. When I hear the phrase "social responsibility", I think about the ripples we create that aren't as obvious to us (e.g. shopping at Walmart because it's cheaper, but then it supports a system that ultimately makes the rich richer and keeps the poor poorer...)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  7. #17
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    It's an interesting concept indeed.

    Responsibility is born from the privilege to make sense of the impact we have on the world surrounding us.

    Without it, life would be unevolving.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Consider for a moment.

    The Honey Badger.

    Honey Badger dont care.

    Honey Badger dont give a fuck.

  9. #19
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Consider for a moment.

    The Honey Badger.

    Honey Badger dont care.

    Honey Badger dont give a fuck.
    Consciousness is a product of evolution after all, and not the other way around.

    Funny movie btw.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #20
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Consciousness is a product of evolution after all, and not the other way around.

    Funny movie btw.
    I think that it is less simple than that, its a little like the question of environment, it shapes people but as they are being shaped by it they are shaping it too.

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