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  1. #11
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus
    No.
    I hope you don't have cats.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #12
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    I have had cats, all cats are not created equal, certain ones I have adored others I have fantasized about kicking into the creek behind my house and fought a daily battle within myself not to act on the urge.

  3. #13
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    I can not fault the pharmacist from charging what he did, nor can I completely fault the man for stealing. Stealing is wrong, but since this was for the purpose of a greater good I have a difficult time with strong enforcement as well. Ultimately I am stuck saying "I don't know". I also don't have nearly enough context or detail to draw a proper conclusion on this.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    I think, technically, Heinz is in the wrong here. While stealing the medicine is certainly understandable given the extenuating circumstances, the act, in and of itself, is completely undermining from a societal point of view. Stealing, and most other forms of criminality, represents termination of the social contract between the perpetrator and the State, and effectively symbolizes his exit from the society that has developed around those rules, as well as his renunciation of all its protections. Heinz put his own self-interest before that of society, his actions advocating for the return to an anarchic natural state. Heinz' belief that his wife has a right to the medicine, regardless of the terms of the social contract (i.e. whether he can pay or not), is a matter between him and the State, not between him and another private individual.
    Theft is a morally indefensible action -- period. The question is if you are willing to abide by the social contract of a society in which you have to resort to theft in order to save the life of your loved one from disease or, similarly, steal food to save your own. In the end, the individual has the natural right to choose to break the contract and exit a society, and by doing so potentially become an existential threat to that society. When enough people do it within a short amount of time we call it a revolution.

    But I would do exactly the same as Heinz if I was in his shoes.
    ‘Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.’

    ‘And we will have made great strides in equality,
    when few have too much and fewer too little.’.

  5. #15
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    He was justified.

    Stealing the drug breaks some kind of rule, but what are the actual consequences? Even if we assume the price of the drug isn't inflated for some dubious reasons (which we don't know from our information given here) and assume there is some kind of reasonable economic basis for the cost of this drug, the consequences of Heinz bypassing the cost are probably so remarkably diffused as to be worth averting the death of his wife. Additionally, we can see few other alternatives, as it has been clearly stated that he attempted other things before stealing and none of them worked.

    EDIT: Of course, with any hypothetical scenario, there are so many unknown details, and you can plug in any number of new bits of information that might change my response.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #16
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    He was justified.

    Stealing the drug breaks some kind of rule, but what the actual consequences? Even if we assume the price of the drug isn't inflated for some dubious reasons (which we don't know from our information given here) and assume there is some kind of reasonable economic basis for the cost of this drug, the consequences of Heinz bypassing the cost are probably so remarkably diffused as to be worth averting the death of his wife. Additionally, we can see few other alternatives, as it has been clearly stated that he attempted other things before stealing and none of them worked.

    EDIT: Of course, with any hypothetical scenario, there are so many unknown details, and you can plug in any number of new bits of information that might change my response.
    You say he was morally justified, but was he morally obligated to steal?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
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  7. #17
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The reason why the drug is outrageously expensive is because it costs $400 million to bring a drug to market. There is a hepatitis drug on the market right now that's very expensive ($1100/pill) but cures the disease. I can't blame the husband for stealing the drug, but the pharmacist owes these people nothing at all. It's his property and it's been stolen. If I was the pharmacist, I would've shot the thief. The ideal approach would be to address the economic and political forces that drives up the cost of these drugs. It's not the pharmacist's fault that the drug is so expensive and he's not being greedy. He has to get something back for his effort too.
    I guess this is a note to thieves to shoot first. Good job turning a robbery into a murder.

  8. #18
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I hope you don't have cats.
    I hope you don't have cats.

  9. #19
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    The husband of the woman, Heinz, pleads with the pharmacist multiple times to give him the drug, and even resorts to charity to buy it.
    Does Heinz have a car he can sell? or a house? Did Heinz offer to pay the pharmacist in installments or barter his time and skill in exchange? Maybe he can wash this guy's car and walk his dog for the next 5 years. I can only assume that he didn't try hard enough.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You say he was morally justified, but was he morally obligated to steal?
    If every one of my suppositions about the situation is correct, I'd say yes. The problem with obligation is that I think it has a very high bar for certainty, and in a real life version of this event, I'm not sure there's enough, and I'd consider Heinz justified, but say I am insufficiently informed to call him obligated.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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