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  1. #701
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    To call the big bang tho the end or the beginning of the universe is scientifically incorrect since it does nothing else than putting symbolism in a thing that doesnt care about symbolism. The same it with God and since I dont believe in God, I dont believe in symbolism as well

    Plus there is the fact that we have natural constants, like the gravitational constant or the Planck constant. Those have very asymmetrical values and seem somehow to have been set ( no not by God ). There values are increasingly important to our existance cause if the gravitation would be just slightly off our whole solar system would have evolved differently or not at all.

    Therefore scientists think that the big bang and following up crunch actually happened a couple of million times before our universe as we know it formed. So even the symbolism of the big bang being the beginning would be off here
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #702
    Member ahriman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    To call the big bang tho the end or the beginning of the universe is scientifically incorrect since it does nothing else than putting symbolism in a thing that doesnt care about symbolism. The same it with God and since I dont believe in God, I dont believe in symbolism as well

    Plus there is the fact that we have natural constants, like the gravitational constant or the Planck constant. Those have very asymmetrical values and seem somehow to have been set ( no not by God ). There values are increasingly important to our existance cause if the gravitation would be just slightly off our whole solar system would have evolved differently or not at all.

    Therefore scientists think that the big bang and following up crunch actually happened a couple of million times before our universe as we know it formed. So even the symbolism of the big bang being the beginning would be off here
    The symbolism between creationist theories and big bang theories was just a novelty more than anything else. Just a brainfart I decided to share. In any case The big bang explains how the universe came into some kind of physical existence and how forces and energy were created. But it does not explain how the properties of the universe came about to actually allow anything to happen. M-theory is one such theory to explain how universes are created but again all it does is create more questions than it answers. Do branes create the properties of a universe if not, what does? What created branes and how do they form? This is why I believe there is room for God to exist in a scientific world. It doesn't mean I actually believe in one right now. But I can entertain the idea and find it plausible.
    Knowledge is power. Sanity is for the weak.

  3. #703
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    kwestion

    if god is infinite, and definishions r finite, can god b defined?

  4. #704
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    ^
    Buddha didn't think so.

  5. #705
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    God already went to the trouble of instructing a few people to write down his word. Why not be a little more tangible and less open to misinterpretation if you already decided to allude to your own existence?
    Well, this is also asking from the standpoint of 'if I were God, I would do it differently', which we already covered and I'm sure by now is starting to seem circular to you.

    Anyways, according to God, His existence already is tangible and obvious, and if we don't recognize it then we are looking but not seeing, so to speak.

  6. #706
    Member ahriman's Avatar
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    I don't like creating labels for my beliefs but I guess you could say I'm somewhat akin to a apathetic agnostic, that is I believe there is no evidence for or against the existence of a god of any type yet if a God does exist it is probably detached from humanity and it's needs. I don't believe in a God in a religious sense which some might find hard to understand, I believe in the possibility of a an impersonal God. To answer the thread I don't believe a christian God exists. We created that God and gave it human qualities i.e love, hate, judgement, retribution e.t.c. The Christian God is just an omnipotent, immortal version of us. That's all I have to say.
    Knowledge is power. Sanity is for the weak.

  7. #707
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahriman View Post
    The symbolism between creationist theories and big bang theories was just a novelty more than anything else. Just a brainfart I decided to share. In any case The big bang explains how the universe came into some kind of physical existence and how forces and energy were created. But it does not explain how the properties of the universe came about to actually allow anything to happen. M-theory is one such theory to explain how universes are created but again all it does is create more questions than it answers. Do branes create the properties of a universe if not, what does? What created branes and how do they form? This is why I believe there is room for God to exist in a scientific world. It doesn't mean I actually believe in one right now. But I can entertain the idea and find it plausible.
    I know that you think that way and I dont find it necessarily unwise. The only issue I have is why it always needs to be God. Why cant it just be the big yellow glibber that invented the universe ? Of course you'll now say that this is possible too, but I have issues relating so much to religion cause religion has caused so much suffering and evil on the World that I actually rather like to forget about it. There are people then who say religion has caused many good things as well, but I am just not the type of guy who says "the means justify the end".

    Its the same with nazi Germany. The nazi did great for Germany, this country had the best time when they rose to power. Everything flourished, everyone was rich but what was the cost we had to pay for this ? Say it is for me with religion, while it may give a purpose to people who need a purpose in life, in other parts of the World it leads to never ending wars about shit and the pope is so irrational to tell for example in Africa that condomds are evil.

    I dunno, I have had it with following false idols. Thes best thing is to think for your own and give life your own purpose.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #708
    Member ahriman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I know that you think that way and I dont find it necessarily unwise. The only issue I have is why it always needs to be God. Why cant it just be the big yellow glibber that invented the universe ? Of course you'll now say that this is possible too, but I have issues relating so much to religion cause religion has caused so much suffering and evil on the World that I actually rather like to forget about it. There are people then who say religion has caused many good things as well, but I am just not the type of guy who says "the means justify the end".

    Its the same with nazi Germany. The nazi did great for Germany, this country had the best time when they rose to power. Everything flourished, everyone was rich but what was the cost we had to pay for this ? Say it is for me with religion, while it may give a purpose to people who need a purpose in life, in other parts of the World it leads to never ending wars about shit and the pope is so irrational to tell for example in Africa that condomds are evil.

    I dunno, I have had it with following false idols. Thes best thing is to think for your own and give life your own purpose.
    I totally agree with you. Which is why I would never believe in a "religious" God again. I say "again" because I had a catholic upbringing and did believe in catholocism up until about 16 years of age. Unfortunatly religion doesn't work. It doesn't achieve what it was supposed to achieve which is a sense of unity, love and peace. Everyone finds a way to re-interpret what is taught because it is so cryptic. See monty pythons "The life of Brian" for a visual example lol. Therefore such a system is flawed and prone to people interpreting what they want and that is the biggest problem and in my opinion was probably done on purpose. Like when a fortune teller gives some vague description of how your life should unfold and your mind puts the pieces together to form your own opinion. Therefore the fortune teller is always right because you made it right. I'll go a step further on your allegory and state that nothing good has actually come from religion because most if not all theists do what they do for personal gain, like saving souls. A close relative of mine want's to "save my soul" but it is not saving my soul she want's to achieve, it's getting into heaven for saving my soul. Being seen as "good" in the eyes of God.

    Religion reminds me of a corporation. It's head is the CEO, it has it's own rules and regulations, it's own reward/councilling system, it strives to "gain" something for it's institution and usually has a membership drive. It has a philosophy or slogan behind it and usually a symbol to represent it. Their one and the same. Just another brainfart I had lol. But back to your point I think everything you say is correct.
    Knowledge is power. Sanity is for the weak.

  9. #709
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahriman View Post
    So because of this inability for either side to come up with a plausable theory of everything I combined both science and God into a new paradigm. I use the word "god" and not religion for the reasons I mentioned in the earlier posts.
    What you say is this: "I do not know, therefore an idea, for whose truth there is no hint, is as probable as a theory for whose truth there is at least a mathematical explanation." I do not agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahriman View Post
    This universe would mean there is a definate beginning and end to the universe and that time and space were essentially created from "nothingness". I'm sorry but that is no more farfetched than having a man in the cloud judging my every thought. If anything the two are ridiculously similar. God creates something from nothing, the universe somehow creates itself from nothing (mathematically). Sounds very similar to christian/muslim ideology to me.
    I refuse to believe that you really find the idea of the big bang and the idea of an almighty 'man in the cloud' equally far-fetched an explanation for the beginning of the universe. The old man is dripping with anthropomorphism. You are serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahriman View Post
    The symbolism between creationist theories and big bang theories was just a novelty more than anything else. Just a brainfart I decided to share. In any case The big bang explains how the universe came into some kind of physical existence and how forces and energy were created. But it does not explain how the properties of the universe came about to actually allow anything to happen. M-theory is one such theory to explain how universes are created but again all it does is create more questions than it answers. Do branes create the properties of a universe if not, what does? What created branes and how do they form? This is why I believe there is room for God to exist in a scientific world. It doesn't mean I actually believe in one right now. But I can entertain the idea and find it plausible.
    Your god, in fact every god, reminds me a lot of luminiferous aether.

    How do you like this proof of god's existence?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    Well, this is also asking from the standpoint of 'if I were God, I would do it differently', which we already covered and I'm sure by now is starting to seem circular to you.
    You covered it by implying that it is not a permissible standpoint. I assume you believe that no human can ever judge god's decisions, which, if it is indeed the case, makes our conversation quite pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwn86 View Post
    Anyways, according to God, His existence already is tangible and obvious, and if we don't recognize it then we are looking but not seeing, so to speak.
    According to the Bible, you mean. Why should I believe that it tells the truth?

  10. #710
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    God is only plausible to those critical faculties have been put to sleep in a hypnotic trance.

    This is charming in children who also find Santa and fairies to be plausible, but it is risible in a grown up.

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