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  1. #61
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    I reject religion because of The Big Picture. The Big Picture, to me, is starting chronologically at the beginning of the Universe and working your way to this point in time, scientifically of course. (If there are any errors in the science please forgive me lol)

    Singularity --> Big Bang due to high vaccum pressure --> Stars and Galaxies form over billions of years --> About 9 billion years into the Universe the Sun of our Solar System forms --> Very shortly after, the Earth forms (.05 billion years after) --> the bombardment of earth by asteroids, meteors, etc --> 0.14 to 1.84 billion years into Earth's existence, Abiogenesis brings primitive cells into existence (on its own, no help from God needed) --> For a few billion years these primitive cells become more complex and compete for survival --> transitional forms of cells arise, the transition being single-celled to multi-celled (no help from God needed) --> Multi-celled organisms arise and begin to spread and evolve --> Precambrian --> (okay this is taking a while and I think i'm making my point, i'll skip a bit) --> Homo Sapiens become a distict species in the Homo Genus (we arrived this way on our own, no help from God), also a few subspecies of Homo Sapiens come about but go extinct (they came after us but died out) --> Homo Sapiens spread from Africa to the rest of the world --> We adapt differently to the environments of the world (had our species been isolated we would have branched off from each other, Asians, Caucasians, etc) --> Each culture has its own religious explanation for our origins --> (blah blah the idea is made)

    Why, after all of this, does God decide, "hey, those homo sapiens over there are sinful and need to be moral according to my rules"? Why does God put himself in human form in some remote desert part of Earth to die for our sins that weren't committed (Adam and Eve never existed and never 'sinned' against God)? Why after all this time, with all these organisms over billions of years, does God decide that its about time for him to show himself? Why didn't he show himself to the other Highly-Conscious beings that existed in the Homo Genus? What about people that never hear the word of Jesus, are they forgiven for their imaginary sin, you would think that if he was a decent and intelligent God he would show himself to everyone at once to prove his existence? What happens to other organisms in general, when they die do they just cease to exist, saved from hell but exempt from heaven?

    Why does God make a heaven and hell for us when the place that we go to is predetermined? God is Omnipotent, All-knowing, and Outside of Time itself, he would already know where we would go to by definition, we have no choice, people like me are doomed to eternal hellfire, do you understand? If we had a choice in what to believe, then the God wouldn't be God, because he wouldn't Know our every thought and what we would decide so that would make him Not All-knowing, A God that doesn't know everything isn't God. If God exists outside of Time, then our existence means nothing to him, the entire history of the Universe could be over in the snap of the finger to God, its like he would have a Tivo remote, he could rewind, pause, fast forward, skip to the end, everything predetermined by the show he was watching that he created, the Universe could exist for .00001 of a second to him, why would he care for a species that arose on earth for a fraction of existence in the history of the Universe. All of that makes no sense though, because the concept of Time is being applied to God! A God outside of Time cannot exist in this way, it is literally un-thinkable, our brains are wired to understand the concept of time, where there is no time it is non-existence to us, our consciousness makes up time, if the atoms in my body were scattered somewhere else in the Universe they would be indifferent to time's existence, they would interact with time but time wouldn't Mean anything to them. If God existed in his own sense of Time outside our Universe (whatever "outside our universe" may mean..) wouldn't he have to be physically comprised of something to exist? If God was Physically comprised of something, in a sense of time, would he be Outside our Universe? Wouldn't those things be applied to Our Universe?

    I have yet to have any theist give me a plausible account for the existence of God. I have no reason to believe in God via personal experience. I have no reason to believe in God via the logic that is instilled in my consiousness, if I had a different thought process (different sense of logic) then maybe I would.







    Edit: This is pretty much addressing Christianity exclusively.
    Does the picture turn when you turn it around?
    In your eyes only.

  2. #62
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Lol Occam's Razor. Don't you ever use that phrase again. Ever!
    why?

    The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.
    if u combine the most accepted theories for the history of genetic population migration backed up by the most modern genetic testing available, and the lack of evidence of macro evolution (micro evolution is def. possible though), archaeological evidence theories (solid facts) based on carbon date testing, then really you don't need any assumptions for this theory to hold.

    Occam's Razor. Love it or leave it! LOL

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    why?
    Misuse to the max, Jack. To the Max.

    Jack.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    You see the 11 planets around the Sun? one is the moon. Another is the 10th planet that NASA discovered 2 years ago.


    Eris is about 2397km wide, Pluto is about 2306km wide, Earth's moon is 3474km wide and Mercury the smallest planet is 4879km wide. Eris is a little icy rock, the Planet X/Nibiru I heard described is about 4 times the size of the earth in a highly eliptical 3,600 year orbit around the sun. You can't even get your own crazy right.

    According to occam's razor... then this theory has more validity than the 10th version of big bang theory.

    But i understand, u want to hold on to your community of mainstream science security. u don't want to be alone... interesting? isn't it? life is a circle in more ways than one.

  5. #65
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    ^ That was so anticlimactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    I heard described is about 4 times the size of the earth in a highly eliptical 3,600 year orbit around the sun.
    If you look carefully at the Sumerian tablet from 5000 years ago, you can see that Nibiru is about the same size as Pluto.

    Heresay vs. Sumerian Tablet. I would have to say Sumerian tablet wins by way of Occam's Razor.

    Can anyone else think of a better way Sumerians knew? Except for their own explanation? vs. Your explanation? Try to make less assumptions than the Sumerian theory if you can.

    Btw, at this point the smartest move is to formalize an industrywide divorce of interdisciplinary theory building from the archaeological community. LOL Lets not try to sit here and argue that science academia is free of politics. There is absolutely no scientific basis to reject the Sumerian theory. Especially given its consistency with population migration and genetic history. In the end, it just sounds too crazy, and mainstream science doesn't want to look crazy. LOL

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    If you look carefully at the Sumerian tablet from 5000 years ago, you can see that Nibiru is about the same size as Pluto.
    Dude, they're little bumps on a little tablet. Scale? Pfft, no.

    Heresay vs. Sumerian Tablet. I would have to say Sumerian tablet wins by way of Occam's Razor.
    No. You're doing it wrong.

    Can anyone else think of a better way Sumerians knew? Except for their own explanation? vs. Your explanation? Try to make less assumptions than the Sumerian theory if you can.
    Knew what? Eris is not a planet, it is a tiny, icy, wannabe planetoid.

    Btw, at this point the smartest move is to formalize an industrywide divorce of interdisciplinary theory building from the archaeological community. LOL
    Uh, yeah. Whatever.

    To summarize my point: STFU n00b!

  7. #67
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    ^ hey, i can tell i got u riled up man.

    that happens when u have to take disbelief at science. im not trying to make u into a bad person here btw.

  8. #68
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  9. #69
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    ^ anti climactic again. -_-

    dood. its not like i was trying to purposely make u feel like u were vacummed inside ur head. i mean, isn't it just better to ignore the thread from the beginning?

  10. #70
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gokartride View Post
    There are several versions (in different cultures, christian and not) of ancient literature speaking of "the two ways." One way (the good way) leads to well-being and wholeness (for us and others)...and the other (the bad way) is less functional and leads to harm of ourselves and others. The dynamics of these "two ways" has been observed playing out over and over since ancient times...and there is real wisdom here. The teachings of Jesus was strongly aligned with "the good way." The good way creates, and enables persons to live in the dignity and inner freedom that is our right. I think/hope people follow the christian God basically because of Jesus' teachings. That so few really do this very well is sad on many levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    Since I haven't seen many atheists going out and murdering and commiting crimes, I'm pretty sure this is unrelated to religon or the teachings of Jesus.
    I think Christianity has endured because the core positive stuff aligns with psychological and social maturity IRL. Any religion that endures, I think, unless the faith has a virtual stranglehold on the culture (and eventually this creates a "purge" period where the religion will be cast aside), is creating some sort of real positive impact on its adherents.

    Then, when people follow the basic "good" tenets and find something very positive (honestly, there are many people who do "come to Jesus" and have good changes in character because of it), they assume the rest must be true as well... because it had such a positive effect in their lives.

    However, this is a logical fallacy because it gets exclusive. Just because something worked in Christianity doesn't mean it's exclusively correct or that all the specifics of the faith are accurate as well or that other beliefs can't offer the same sort of positive growth, depending on what they are.

    I'm currently battling with my mom on a number of things and it all falls into this same boat. The good stuff in her life as a child and even now has been presented to her and viewed by her as part of her "Christian faith" rather than as something separate, so that's how it is all linked in her mind. The good stuff has validity; thus Christianity is valid as well; and to change her beliefs would repudiate the good stuff in her life.

    It's hard to deal with. Many people want closure and just can't or won't see beyond their own framework if it has worked for them

    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    You see the 11 planets around the Sun? one is the moon. Another is the 10th planet that NASA discovered 2 years ago.

    According to occam's razor... then this theory has more validity than the 10th version of big bang theory.
    Based on the logical efficacy of Occam's Razor, I'm betting he usually opted for the beard.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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